Any thoughts on the completion of Bruckner's 9th?
Wed, Jul 18 2012, 12:10PM
#2
RE: Any thoughts on the completion of Bruckner's 9th?
Mussessein
Thanks for that, I really do need to buy and listen to the CD. Then perhaps we should compare notes again.
Wed, Jul 18 2012, 12:16PM
#3
RE: Any thoughts on the completion of Bruckner's 9th?
Mussessein
Thanks for that, I really do need to buy and listen to the CD. Then perhaps we should compare notes again.
Let's do it!
Sun, Aug 5 2012, 7:16PM
#4
RE: Any thoughts on the completion of Bruckner's 9th?
I find myself in agreement with John saying he's not quite sure if it works and Ganymede saying he hasn't yet grasped the architecture of that new last movement.
Having said that, I find I can get the structure alright of the first 3 movements after listening to HVK and the BPO's 1966 recording on Galleria a few weeks ago. So perhaps a couple more listenings are needed. My feeling on a first listening though is that the 4th movement isn't particularly strong in the thematic department. Plenty of variation mind which does 'feel' right on the other hand.
I wonder also if the way the 3rd movement ends in the original might have something to do with our cautious response. There is an enormous climax in the 3rd movement (which ends c. the 20 minute mark in the Rattle) and then a very long coda - about 4 minutes. Both these two things do seem to give the original version a sense of finality.
Hmm........jury out?
Mark
(PS There's some good stuff posted by Bliss and Chris from what the reviewers had to say over on the composers' methods thread, for anybody who doesn't know).
Mon, Aug 6 2012, 12:55PM
#5
RE: Any thoughts on the completion of Bruckner's 9th?
Added later - as one or two posters have also said, there does seem to be a valedictory feeling in the 3rd movement as well, so the mood of the original Adagio isn't easy to follow either...
Mark
Mon, Aug 13 2012, 10:24PM
#6
RE: Any thoughts on the completion of Bruckner's 9th?
Added later - as one or two posters have also said, there does seem to be a valedictory feeling in the 3rd movement as well, so the mood of the original Adagio isn't easy to follow either...
Mark
If I remember correctly, Bruckner made some alterations to the 3rd movement finale when he realized he would not live long enough to finish a 4th movement. He was trying to make the end of the Adagio stand in as a conclusion. That, of course, further complicates the issue of the reconstructed 4th movement....
Mon, Aug 13 2012, 11:27PM
#7
RE: Any thoughts on the completion of Bruckner's 9th?
Aren't you fed up with all this speculation on the completion, alterations, modifications, changes, etc. of Bruckner's Ninth? If you prefer it this way or another, it's great all the way, in every way.
Parla
I heard the preview on Radio 3, and do intend to purchase it. I have seen Rattle conduct the 3 movement version many years ago but was a little underwhelmed. I think he has improved since then.
There is some confusion as to what Bruckner actually left. If my understanding is correct, probably nearly all of the score, but only a small extract of this is fully orchestrated. There is also the problem, as to how much his "friends" meddled with things after his death. If the situation is similar to the 4th symphony, then it is unlikely to be ever fully resolved.
DarkSkyMan -- My copy of the Rattle CD arrived today and I've listened to it once. No complaints so far about interpretation or performance; from that standpoint it feels like good solid Bruckner to me (although I'm not as familiar with his work as some others who have posted here). The 4th movement IS sketchy -- according to the very detailed liner notes, the first 216 bars (out of 653) are intact, in order, and scored by Bruckner himself. In the middle third, gaps start to appear in the full score, but most are bridged by sketches. In the last third, there is no complete score from Bruckner, and even the sketches start to thin out. Most of the newly composed material is in that last third, including the coda. This "performing version" appears to take into account all material related to the finale that has come to light so far. The problem, apparently, was that Bruckner's friends at his death were allowed to take individual pages from his 4th movement score and sketches as souvenirs, so the material itself is very widely scattered; some of the pages used in this completion surfaced as recently as 2003. My guess is that there is yet more "lost" material out there that may or may not be found. Until then, Rattle's 2012 recording would appear to have the best claim to authenticity.