Brahms conductors
Tue, Jul 5 2011, 7:56AM
I really like Brahms symphonies. I have bought Simon Rattle's box set after watching his performance with BPO in youtube. The last movement of symphony no.4 was gorgeous. I am looking for more interpretation of Brahms symphony 1-4. I am just fifteen so I need good advice from more experienced classical listener. Thank you
Tue, Jul 5 2011, 1:30PM
#2
RE: Brahms conductors
Karl Böhm's cycle with the VPO from 1976 is most pleasurable. As a bonus, you get the Alto Rhapsody amd the Haydn Variations. Conductor and orchestra alike are on top form in these recordings.
Tue, Jul 5 2011, 2:20PM
#3
RE: Brahms conductors
When I was your age it was Rudolf Kempe and the BPO.
However, they are expensive and the sound is acceptable fifties.
Tue, Jul 5 2011, 6:13PM
#4
RE: Brahms conductors
Kempe, Kempe, Kempe. After 50 years and a gazillion recordings or live performances of these works, I've yet to hear anybody who comes close. Humanity, subtlety, power, it's all there. The Testament issue does the performances justice. 1 was in very good stereo to begin with, 3 was a rather shrill EMI stereo disc and has been tamed beautifully (as has the Tragic Overture that accompanied it), 2 and 4 are in perfectly-acceptable mono. You also get the Haydn Variations, though that won't be a scale-tipper for most people.
Kempe did the cycle again with the Munich Phil, but most prefer the earlier recordings. I wouldn't argue with anyone who champions Bohm in these works, quite similar in approach to Kempe.
Tue, Jul 5 2011, 11:22PM
#5
RE: Brahms conductors
Kempe, Kempe, Kempe. After 50 years and a gazillion recordings or live performances of these works, I've yet to hear anybody who comes close. Humanity, subtlety, power, it's all there. The Testament issue does the performances justice. 1 was in very good stereo to begin with, 3 was a rather shrill EMI stereo disc and has been tamed beautifully (as has the Tragic Overture that accompanied it), 2 and 4 are in perfectly-acceptable mono. You also get the Haydn Variations, though that won't be a scale-tipper for most people.
Kempe did the cycle again with the Munich Phil, but most prefer the earlier recordings. I wouldn't argue with anyone who champions Bohm in these works, quite similar in approach to Kempe.
The 3rd wasn't shrill in its LP format. In fact I would argue that this is the most difficult of symphonies to bring off and there are very few recordings where this happens. Kempe's is one of them and, being biased, I would say the best of them.
However, it is the 2nd that is my favourite in this set and the first one that I bought. It was judged "lyrical" in its time but isn't that what it is? The slow movement never fails to move even after all these years.
He died far to young. He was chief of the BBCSO. Incredible, Rudolf Kempe!
These were the great days of the BBC orchestra when in quick succession it had Davis, Dorati, Kempe and Boulez.
Wed, Jul 6 2011, 11:50AM
#6
RE: Brahms conductors
No one has mentioned Kurt Sanderling - his RCA/Eurodisc set is very fine. Far preferable to the later set on Capriccio... (And other much-lauded sets are the Boult and the Loughran - the latter wonderfully unmannered and natural.)
Wed, Jul 6 2011, 6:41PM
#7
RE: Brahms conductors
The 3rd wasn't shrill in its LP format.
I have to disagree. I still have the lp and it's ghastly on my equipment, right up there with a couple of early Supraphon stereo lps. The Tragic Overture that fills the disc is a far better recording. Agree with the rest of your comments though. One lasting memory I have of the 3rd is a performance on the radio by one of the BBC regional orchestras in some small town in northern England, can't recall where. I guess some of them didn't know the work that well because they started applauding long before the end, right in the middle of the closing diminuendo.
Wed, Jul 6 2011, 9:02PM
#8
RE: Brahms conductors
Szell's set with the Cleveland Orchestra includes the Haydn Variations and the Academic Festival and Tragic Overtures. The performances are everything you could ask for.
Wed, Jul 6 2011, 10:52PM
#9
RE: Brahms conductors
The 3rd wasn't shrill in its LP format.
I have to disagree. I still have the lp and it's ghastly on my equipment, right up there with a couple of early Supraphon stereo lps. The Tragic Overture that fills the disc is a far better recording. Agree with the rest of your comments though. One lasting memory I have of the 3rd is a performance on the radio by one of the BBC regional orchestras in some small town in northern England, can't recall where. I guess some of them didn't know the work that well because they started applauding long before the end, right in the middle of the closing diminuendo.
It was among the first stereo discs that I bought, HMV with a white label as opposed to the red label for the mono equivalent (yes, the majors issued discs in both mono and stereo, astonishing when you think about it now, and you could play mono on stereo equipment but not stereo on mono equipment!).
It sounded fine on my Thorens deck with the Ortofon arm.
Thu, Jul 7 2011, 1:26AM
#10
RE: Brahms conductors
It sounded fine on my Thorens deck with the Ortofon arm.
A more than respectable combo.
One of the reasons I regret the passing of Gramophone's 'Sounds in Retrospect" is that they would tell you what gear they were using to judge recording quality, so you could benchmark your own against it. Recordings can sound radically different on different equipment.
My copy of the Kempe Brahms 3 is on HMV Concert Classics, a mid-price issue. It has a picture of a half-sunk boat on the cover. Go figure. Over the years I probably played it on every piece of equipment I owned from a cheapo Garrard setup that I could fit in one suitcase, speakers and all, to my current SME/Shure V15 III through Quad. I was never happy with the recording and was delighted when I heard the Testament revamp on cd.
Incidentally Troyen, if you check out the original Gramophone review Trevor Harvey said (I might be paraphrasing here) "the string sound is not one I'd associate with the BPO". For once, me and Trevor were on the same wavelength.
Thu, Jul 7 2011, 9:20AM
#11
RE: Brahms conductors
You are right not to want to stick with one set. There are of course the great historical recordings before Kempe - above all Furtwängler IMO. I would suggest his #1 with the NDR Sinfonieorchester 1951, #2 with the Vienna Phil '45, #3 with the BPO '54, #4 BPO '43. I must say though that #3 is the only Brahms symphony of which even the best recordings seem somehow unsatisfactory, including Furtwängler's; I would suggest the wonderful recording by Guido Cantelli with the Philharmonia for quite a different experience: light and clarity. There are many more, Weingartner, Toscanini... Tip: try the Public Domain Classic site for a plethora of free historical recordings.
Thu, Jul 7 2011, 2:32PM
#12
RE: Brahms conductors
It sounded fine on my Thorens deck with the Ortofon arm.
A more than respectable combo.
One of the reasons I regret the passing of Gramophone's 'Sounds in Retrospect" is that they would tell you what gear they were using to judge recording quality, so you could benchmark your own against it. Recordings can sound radically different on different equipment.
My copy of the Kempe Brahms 3 is on HMV Concert Classics, a mid-price issue. It has a picture of a half-sunk boat on the cover. Go figure. Over the years I probably played it on every piece of equipment I owned from a cheapo Garrard setup that I could fit in one suitcase, speakers and all, to my current SME/Shure V15 III through Quad. I was never happy with the recording and was delighted when I heard the Testament revamp on cd.
Incidentally Troyen, if you check out the original Gramophone review Trevor Harvey said (I might be paraphrasing here) "the string sound is not one I'd associate with the BPO". For once, me and Trevor were on the same wavelength.
He, I think, in the end opted for Walter and the Columbia SO on...what, Philips, CBS? Issued at the same time. In fact as good as, I think.
My experience of Concert Classics re-issues was a bright sound designed, I suspect, to perform well on cheap players.
Fri, Jul 8 2011, 12:55PM
#13
RE: Brahms conductors
Having come late to Brahm's symphonies, perhaps because we didn't have any on the family's 78s when I was growing up, the first recording I bought was a CfP LP of James Loughran's No1 with the Halle (including a glorious Alto Rhapsody from Bernadette Greevy). I regret not getting the rest when they were available on LP, as like James Jolly I rate it highly. I would also endorse James's other suggestion, good old Sir Adrian, for the full set. I've not heard Klemperer, Sanderling or Kempe, but can always endorse Szell's performances (of more or less anything).
One set not mentioned is Barbirolli's Vienna recordings. Not perhaps a first choice with their broad expansive tempi but I put on the CD of No 4 the other day and wallowed in the luscious Viennese string sound from the bright recording with a very wide stereo spread. I prefer the older analogue sound but anyone wanting modern budget versions won't go wrong with Marin Alsop in 1 & 4 (I've not heard the other two).
Finally two others: Horenstein / LSO with No 1. Powerful, emotional, the exciting 1962 LSO at their very best and stunning sound (Chesky LP), plus from the same year, Reiner's RPO No 4 (also Chesky LP). Typical of the many superb recordings produced by Charles Gerhardt and recorded by Decca's Kenneth Wilkinson originally for RCA/Reader's Digest. I seem to recall the Reiner No 4 was Radio Three's Building a Library first choice some years ago.
Fri, Jul 8 2011, 1:07PM
#14
RE: Brahms conductors
PS Thought I'd look at the Archive after writing the above. Edward Greenfield rated the Horenstein with the very finest, like the Loughran.
Fri, Jul 8 2011, 2:11PM
#15
RE: Brahms conductors
On the Reiner 4th, recorded in London for Readers Digest, I believe, near the end of the conductor's life, changed my opinion of the man.
For once there was no hint of the customary coolness because the RPO clearly warmed to their conductor and the performance, accordingly, has an Autumnal glow or is that my imagination caught up in the superlative performance?
Apparently, Reiner was the perfect gentleman displaying none of the attributes of the famed martinet.
Otto Klemperer's set of the Brahms symphonies has always been greatly admired. Monumental performances of great strength and integrity in which, as always with Klemperer, there is a real sense of grasping the overall structure of each of these great works. The current "Great Recordings of the Century" incarnation also includes the two overtures, the Haydn Variations and the Alto Rhapsody (with Christa Ludwig). I have enjoyed these performances since the early 1960's (then on LP) and still return to them from time to time, finding them refreshing and stimulating.
When it comes to recent recordings, Marin Alsop's set with the LPO is certainly recommendable. Three very good performances (1,2 & 4) and one exceptional one (3). These are warmly expressive, affectionate and very well paced accounts which will give much pleasure. A good alternative, in fact, to Klemperer's rather more severe approach. The discs are available separately and include the Haydn Variations, the two overtures and a few of the Hungarian Dances.
GWP