Composer as philosopher?

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CraigM
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RE: RE: Composer as philosopher? RE: Composer as philosopher?

guillaume wrote:

This was exactly the point of my previous (admittedly somewhat facetious) post and surely clinches the argument - but you never know.

Guillaume

Indeed.

 

It's barely sensible to say that Mozart was a philosopher but not that sort of philosopher who produces philosophical writings. It's rather like saying Mozart was a great novelist - but not the sort of who actually writes novels. Or a great architect - but not one who ever designed a building.

 

What I don’t really follow is why it's not sufficient to say that Mozart was one of the greatest composers who ever lived - and instead want to say he wasn't 'just' a composer, but also a philosopher. If nothing else, it implies that being a great composer isn't good enough and somehow an inferior activity to philosophy. Why should that be?

 

 

 

guillaume
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RE: Composer as philosopher?

dubrob wrote:

 

Some commonly called philosophers such as Spinoza, Montaigne, Kierkegaard, Heidegger, Wittgenstein can be rewarding, but most for the quantity of philosophical truth that they revealed to me are as next to nothing when compared to reading Macbeth or Ulysses, or seeing Goya´s late works or listening to too many composers to name.

Dubrob, despite my two previous posts in this thread, which I've only just read in its entirety, I'd be almost fully in agreement with you here if you hadn't qualified "truth" with "philosophical". I say "almost" because Montaigne is one of my favourite writers and was too much a man of the world to be a philosopher. And the fact remains that Mozart certainly wasn't one.

Guillaume

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boing007
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RE: Composer as philosopher?

If we agree that Marx retooled Hegel's Dialectic and transformed it into his own version of Dialectical Materialism then I would have to say that in some ways... 'the drivers of the tanks as they rolled into Budapest in 1956 were motivated by Hegel´s dialectic,' is a true statement. Of course, by that time, Marx's theories had been hardened into incontrovertible truths, i.e., ideology. Just one of many cast in iron ideologies that continue to plague us early into the 21st Century.

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boing007
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RE: Composer as philosopher?

We are all philosophers, to varying degrees.

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Peter Street
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RE: Composer as philosopher?

A year or two before the tanks rolled into Budapest, I recall listening to a lecture by Isaiah Berlin,  from which one mention of music has always stuck.   To Hegel, he said, the way thought worked was "like a symphony".    I think what he meant was that Hegel's dialectic worked along the same lines as sonata form  - Thesis/first subject: antithesis/second subject: synthesis/ the whole movement achieved through the conflict of the development.  Curiously, sonata form doesn't seem to have been defined until the mid 1820s, well after Hegel had established himself, so it might be that the musical theorists who got there were influenced, more than they thought, by Hegel's ideas.   But equally, if a symphonist can evolve, for his own purposes, what can be adapted as a model for a certain vision of logic, it may not be  so very far-fetched to consider Mozart as, at least, an exponent of certain aspects of eighteenth century ideas about morals.  The Enlightenment didn't much go in for restrictive practices in ideas.  Anyone could join in.

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