Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
Mon, Jan 31 2011, 1:38PM
Right here goes, until I get shot down I will try to be as catholic as possible, don´t worry Tagalie no Xenakis this week, but you never know.
Over the last week I have been listening to Carlos Kleiber´s 3lp set of Der Freischutz from 1973 if memory serves. I think it´s a great work and a great recording. Remarkable for Kleiber´s debut, and Gundula Janowitz is outstanding in my opinion. The only thing I don´t like is the disparity between the sung and spoken words as differnent singers and actors are employed for the same characters which is very offputting, and ruins the continuity for me. Interestingly I heard on the latest podcast that John Eliot Gardiner plans to do it soon in French using Berlioz´s settings of the recitative which hopefully will remove the need for actors at all.
Anyway I´m not familiar with other versions of Der Freischutz or shamefully any other of Weber´s music. I´ve heard about his clarinet works, and piano sonatas, but never actually listened to any of them properly. So what would other posters recommend. How about DVDs of Der Freischutz.
This is my opening salvo, so now it´s over to you guys, is there anybody out there?
Mon, Jan 31 2011, 10:19PM
#2
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
I knew you'd land on a composer I hardly know! Der Freischutz is the only Weber I've heard more than once. There's a dvd with the Hamburg State Opera. I thoroughly enjoyed it but it seems to have aroused the anger of the purists who have their own clear mental pic of how the work should look - probably lots of Tyrolean gear and alpenhorns. There's also an older performance featuring Frick as Caspar. It's a Liebermann film and highly rated by many. But it's lip synched and apparently showing its age.
Mon, Jan 31 2011, 11:10PM
#3
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
Thanks for the replies gents, I don´t want to end up talking to myself, the wife will tell you I do too much of that as it is. Why do we praise Weber so little as John said; I do find this odd, is he guilty of falling between two stools?, too Classical to be Romantic or vice versa?, thus upsetting the categorisations so beloved of the people who tell us who we should listen to. In some parts of Freischutz you can hear without problems that he was born when Mozart was alive, then at other moments, it´s where did this guy come from? People say that his music can sound Wagnerian at times, clearly people who don´t understand chronology, as they should say that Wagner sounded very Weberian at times.
It´s interesting Tagalie what you said about the purists and their demands for Freischutz to be performed in an uber German setting, as according to John Eliot Gardiner, Weber was as much influenced by French music, and the plot of Freischutz by French folklore as anything solely German. I mean to check out the Piano Sonatas. Berlioz seems to have had a very high regard for Weber, and I have a very high regard for auld Hector, so that´s praise enough for me.
Tue, Feb 1 2011, 8:38PM
#4
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
I suspect Weber falls into the same unfortunate pot as Berwald, born too close to Beethoven and not quite as talented.
Wed, Feb 2 2011, 8:19AM
#5
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
Yes, I do keep trying with Berwald, and not quite getting there! I don't know why: I have no prejudice: the music just doesn't quite lodge in my brain as it surely deserves to. Odd. While I'm on the subject of blind (deaf?) spots, I feel even guiltier about not really being able to get on with Martinu. Could it be, mutatis mutandis, a case of me thinking Dvorak/Janacek but not quite these?
Wed, Feb 2 2011, 10:45AM
#6
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
I went to te library yesterday, and borrowed whatever Weber I could find. I must say I´m glad I did, the first Clarinet Concerto is a fine work. Comparisons with Mozart are inevitable, but this piece I think is strong enough to be viewed on its own merits. A fine dramatic opening movement, a gorgeous slow movement, and a jovial finale. The recording I got was a 60´s DG one with Karl Leister accompanied by the BPO and Kubelik. I don´t think Leister is the greatest clarinettist you are likely to hear, based on this performance anyway, but Kubelik holds it all together and shows Weber´s mastery of orchestral textures and sonorities. I´m going to try the piano concertos today.
Wed, Feb 2 2011, 10:27PM
#7
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
While I'm on the subject of blind (deaf?) spots, I feel even guiltier about not really being able to get on with Martinu. Could it be, mutatis mutandis, a case of me thinking Dvorak/Janacek but not quite these?
Which of Matinu's works have you tried, John? He wears a few different hats. The baroquey Martinu is one I don't enjoy - some of his works for chamber orchestra for instance. At the other end of the scale there are the symphonies, huge-hearted works full of passion and life. Symphony 6 is a one-off, a strange other-worldly piece. Some great choral works - Gilgamesh and the Field Mass, and two superb operas - Greek Passion and Julietta. He churned out a fair bit of music and not all of it is top-drawer by any means. Quite a few pot-boilers in there.
Back to Weber. I started watching Freischutz again last night with an eye to dubrob's comments on his range of influences. There certainly is a wide variety in there, one section even anticipating Richard Strauss, and the Wolf'sglen scene has echoes of Berlioz. It seems to anticipate the last act of Rigoletto, the storm music. But the overall ethos is unmistakeably German. There seems to be a recurring idea of the 'rightness' of man-on-man contest in German fable, interference by the gods being at best unwarranted, at worst downright dirty. So contest losers go out of their way to call injustice and cite meddling or foolishness on behalf of adjudicators/gods. Lohengrin for instance. Or their obsession with England's disputed goal in 1966.
Wed, Feb 2 2011, 11:08PM
#8
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
Don´t worry men, Martinu will be appearing here before long.
Thu, Feb 3 2011, 8:28AM
#9
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
Thanks Tagalie. (Very briefly on Martinu, since that's off-topic: I keep trying the symphonies, especially 4, 5 and 6, but just can't hear the 'passion and life' you and many others refer to - my loss, not that I'll give up. Which recordings would you recommend?)
As to Weber, perhaps the network of influences and pre-echoes (e.g. Strauss) you describe is symptomatic of what we were saying? An excellent composer whose own style can be a little hard to define/describe. I suppose it would be possible to hear a piece of music 'blind' and say 'that sounds like Weber', but how often do we do that?
This is in no way to denigrate Weber. It's just an observation about the way many of us think about, remember and discuss music. I shall make some amends by listening again to the two symphonies.
Thu, Feb 3 2011, 10:52PM
#10
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
I´ve been listening to Weber´s music for piano and orchestra today, and I´ve come to the conclusion that both of you are right. Tagalie when he said that Weber was unfortunate in being too close to, but less talented than Beethoven, and John when you said that we hold his less ambitious nature against him. The works I listened to today are remarkably assured and well written, and very enjoyable if not being overtly memorable.
John, I always find blind listening very interesting. In the days of the covermount CD, I used to listen to the pieces, and see if I could guess the composers, the results were always very interesting. I turned on BBC Radio 3 last Monday morning and was forced to listen to a piece until the end. I knew I had heard the descending motif before, but couldn´t place it. It turned out to be Strauss´ Alpensymphonie a work I don´t have, but I mean to get it after that blind listening.
Fri, Feb 4 2011, 3:31AM
#11
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
Very briefly on Martinu, since that's off-topic: I keep trying the symphonies, especially 4, 5 and 6, but just can't hear the 'passion and life' you and many others refer to - my loss, not that I'll give up. Which recordings would you recommend?
John, I have a feeling Martinu just isn't for you. You've picked three excellent works and if they don't do it for you it's probably time to pass on. Of course there's a chance you've listened to less than top-rank performances. Can't think who's they'd be though. Those works have been quite lucky on record. Any of the Supraphon recordings over the years, starting with Ancerl, are serviceable to excellent. Belohlavek does a good job with them. The Bryden Thomson set on Chandos was, in my opinion, very underrated and is currently cheap like borsch. Still, for all of us there are composers that just don't get through and maybe that's the case with Martinu for you.
Got the Weber clarinet concerto out of the library today, and will give it a whirl. Dubrob, how have you managed to get through life without the Alpine Symphony?! Go for Kempe, or Wit if you can't find him.
Fri, Feb 4 2011, 8:34PM
#12
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
Shows how little I know of Weber. The disc I got from the library, a BIS with Martin Frost as soloist, turns out to have four of Weber's orchestral works with clarinet. Of them the one that, by far, gripped me most was a transcription of his clarinet quintet for clarinet and strings. Full of original ideas and a very individual voice. What struck me about both concertos was the weight of the middle movements and the slightly perfunctory nature of both first movements. Then I read that he composed the second and third movements first (if you see what I mean), the firsts last. Did he suffer from a kind of a kind of reverse of the normal composer syndrome - difficulty finishing off a work?
The slow movement of the first concerto seems to owe much to Mozart's work but is very fine nevertheless. To my ears the second concerto is more Beethovean. The concertino didn't do much for me but I need to give it another listen. After 70 minutes of clarinet with orchestra I was getting a bit punchy.
I can't see any reason why the quintet should sound significantly different in its original form. It's worth seeking out. In general, there's a dark colouring to much of Weber's slower music that I find appealing.
Fri, Feb 4 2011, 9:17PM
#13
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
I heard the clarinet quintet in its original form, and I have to be honest I thought it suffered from being too long, half an hour. I don´t know if the version for strings has any cuts. Weber was quite original in his own way, never moreso than in Freischutz which is why I started this post in the first place, but also the one movement Konzertstuck for piano and orchestra must be a one off for its time.
Fri, Feb 4 2011, 11:01PM
#14
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
They must have fallen asleep. It runs 23:11 on the BIS disc which, for a four movement work and unless you're Elizabeth Maconchy, is pretty concise.
Sat, Feb 5 2011, 9:46PM
#15
RE: Composer of the week : Carl Maria von Weber
Tagalie, thanks, but just to let you know that I'm not giving in (or up) yet on Martinu. The recent Belohlavek/Czech Philharmonic 5 and 6 on Supraphon I bought today, with determination to listen to it until it surrenders - or rather until I surrender to it!
Well done for making a start, Durob! I remember feeling much the same about the Kleiber Freischutz: it feels a bit theatrical in the wrong sense. I seem to remember the Harnoncourt version winning some favourable reviews when it first appeared.
The clarinet concertos are great fun, and very appealing (I have the Sabine Meyer recording on EMI). And a handful of the overtures (Freischutz, Oberon, Euryanthe) seem to have been a staple of many conductors' repertoire in the past: rightly so, given their tunefulness and fine craftsmanship. We haven't had a disc of Weber overtures since, if I'm right, the Pletnev/Russian National CD nearly 15 years ago? That's a pity. There's a wealth of pleasure in this music. [Edited: I note there's a recent-looking Naxos disc from the NZSO under Antoni Wit, with good reviews.]
The two symphonies aren't bad, either, in their relatively modest but happily accessible way. For a long time I remember the Penguin Guide raving about a Naxos version of the symphonies from the Queensland Philharmonic under John Georgiadis (I note that the Presto Classical website offers sound clips from this). I've never heard that recording but do have a good disc from BIS with the Tapiola Sinfonietta.
I don't know any Weber chamber or solo music, I'm afraid.
I wonder why it is we don't seem to rate Weber perhaps as highly as he deserves? Looking back at some of what I've typed I'm struck it may seem to damn a little with faint praise. No Beethoven or Berlioz, do we hold his more modest-seeming ambitions against him?
John