Covermount CD Discontinuance
Wed, Oct 6 2010, 8:54PM
#2
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
I wonder whether the monthly extracts on the Gramophone Player are going to be available online indefinitely, just as the old cover CDs were.
Thu, Oct 7 2010, 10:12AM
#3
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
Although I have to agree with most readers that the discontinuation of the covermount CD is unfortunate, the online player is surely a fine substitute. After all one only needs to sample the discs in question before eventual purchasing. Still I have to also agree with the reader who pointed out the 'superficial quality of the reviews' - something which has been quite noticeable of late. Half the magazine is now taken up by endless interviews (mostly all boot licking and cheap adulation) with ever less space for reviews. That in itself is truly unfortunate.
Thu, Oct 7 2010, 2:58PM
#4
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
While I am disappointed with the loss of the CD as I too listen in the car, a simple fix would be to include a downloadable MP3 file of the entire covermount disc that could be put onto a player or burned onto a CD. Right now we are anchored to computer.
This seems even more curious when some of us are listening to the quality of the SOUND of the recording before we buy. While the MP3 degrades the quality I think one could get an idea of the quality overall sufficient to purchase the disc.
Thu, Oct 7 2010, 5:48PM
#5
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
I too am very dismayed at the end of the covermount cd.
Firstly there is the severe reduction of sound quality. Your boast that the web player ‘streams at 256kbps – which is better than most internet radio stations’ is merely saying that you are slightly better than something which is appalling. It is NOT CD quality and on the few extracts I’ve can bear to have listened to so far on the new web player through hi-fi speakers, it is simply not good enough. Maybe those on this forum who have marveled at the ‘longer extracts’ on the web player would also be content to listen to their all classical music recordings on Spotify where they can also benefit from suggestions such as ‘if you like Beethoven you may also like Haydn’ to ensure they remain locked within a very narrow range of musical styles.
Secondly if this means that the special features of the past cd’s are to be discontinued then, unlike ‘shaffner’, I will be very disappointed with Gramophone. The musical extracts are merely aural advertising for the record companies; your features were unique and well produced involving people who are real authorities in their field. If the Gramophone continues to dumb down and reduce the quality of its product then my complete collection of issues dating back to 1954 may have found its final end point.
Thu, Oct 7 2010, 7:55PM
#6
CD Discontinued
Hello all,
I am also anoyed that Haymarket have decided to kill off the CD.
I bought a subscription for my Mother last Christmas. She has really enjoyed listening and reading her magazine each month. Each month, we have discussed and listened together where possible. Now, with the best will in the world, she won't be able to listen to what was an integral part of the Gramaphone "experience" for want of a better phrase. Although she can email, she will not be able to use an online player - no matter how good it looks!
This is a retrograde step, the quality of any great recording is important. It has to be in order to get all of the various nuances of a performance. If Haymarket and Gramaphone were serious about providing quality recordings and are absolutly refusing to provide physical media, whats wrong with using "loseless" or uncompressed files that can be downloaded and recorded to CD - which is still the dominant media format worldwide. At least give us the option, please?
Which brings me to my last big issue with this. Like other posters here, I have a study with a computer and a front lounge dedicated to music. My hifi isn't earth shattering, but it sure as heck sounds considerably better than 256 kbps! This is even before I get to grips with transfering the data from my PC/Laptop to my pre-amp. I am sure it can be done as I Cat 6 cabled up during the build, and I can buy a dedicated lead,but the point is, its not anywhere as easy as dropping the silver disk in the player and pressing play!
Please Haymarket/Gramaphone - listen to your customers. If the majority don't care, then fine. But almost every post here that I have read thinks this is a retrograde step.
I received a reminder that my mums subscription is due up in two months, I honestly don't think I will be renewing for her. I will search around and see if any other magazines in her interest areas are available - which still include a CD.
Thu, Oct 7 2010, 9:48PM
#7
RE: CD Discontinued
If Haymarket and Gramaphone were serious about providing quality recordings and are absolutly refusing to provide physical media, whats wrong with using "loseless" or uncompressed files that can be downloaded and recorded to CD - which is still the dominant media format worldwide. At least give us the option, please?
Sorry, but the record companies which supply the tracks used on the Gramophone player would be very reluctant to provide the longer extracts now being provided in a form which could be downloaded and recorded.
Thu, Oct 7 2010, 11:55PM
#8
RE: CD Discontinued
whats wrong with using "loseless" or uncompressed files
What's wrong with it is that internet downloading bandwidth is not free, so if we provided it in lossless we'd be paying three or four times as much for it for compressed lossless, and about 6 times as much for uncompressed. And those who don't have fast broadband or uncapped download limits could end up a bit stuffed.
My hifi isn't earth shattering, but it
sure as heck sounds considerably better than 256 kbps!
Really? Mine's a NaimUniti and I can tell you that the gramophone player is not the weak link in the chain. I personally advised the chosen bitrate as a balance between quality, cost and usability, and would advise it again, and will continue to advise it until bandwidth costs fall and availability rises to a level where lossless streaming is viable.
In fact, next month I think I'll upload one track as lossless and see if anybody can tell which one it is...
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 8:27AM
#9
RE: CD Discontinued RE: CD Discontinued
Hi John,
Thanks for your reply. I understand your concern to ensure all of your readers are able to access the tracks each month. I agree that greater bandwidth and costs can very much be a factor with regards to lossless and uncompressed downloads.
However, this just reinforces the point that for as near as possible universal access to the music Gramaphone provides, CD is the best medium. Almost everyone will have some method of playing redbook standard cd's, either on hifi's, dvd players, value systems in the kitchen, laptops etc etc.
To utilise the "player", you need a computer. You also need to be able to use it to a level that allows the user access to the player. How many of your readers are able to do that? Is it a greater percentage compared to those that can use a cd?
It disenfranchises those who do not have the technical hardware or ability. Plus, it makes it darned difficult to listen and appreciate Gramaphone in the car on the way to work :)
As for telling the difference between uncompressed and 256 kbps, yes John, "Really" can :)
Never heard the Naim Uniti so can't comment on its' sound. I have used a variety of mid-price cdp's/dacs (currently a Unison Research Unico CDP) playing through a Fying Mole Pre and connected to Focal Solo6 BE's prof. studio monitors.
I believe that it is possible to hear the difference between uncompressed and compressed music. I also believe you can hear the diffence between various Bitrates - particularly at the extremes. I did read of a study that suggested that the cut off point for telling the difference between CD's and lossey compression was around 320kbps.
I guess that brings us on to the question as to if we want a worse quality of sound compared to what went before? Is 256 kbps better than CD quality, or Vinyl, or SACD/DVD-A? Should we not be srtiving for better quality than what went previously?
Isn't "gramaphone" about the best fo everything? The music, the performers, the editorials, the journalism? Shouldn't "Gramaphone" provide the best quality and most convinient way for its readers to appreciate its choices?
In essence, I beleive it is less convinient for the majority of your readership and is of poorer audio quality. The only positive is that their is more of it, but more poor sounding recordings that are a lot less convinient to listen too is not a step forward for progress i'm afraid!
Regards,
Austin
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 8:35AM
#10
RE: CD Discontinued RE: CD Discontinued
Dear Andrew,
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the difficulties of dealing with the industry in relation to getting permissions. However, as in my reply to John, this sort of reinforces the point I am trying to make.
The reliance on a media player as the only source of listing to Gramaphone choices means that your readers have limited choice of when and where they can listen. It *has* to be with the aid of a computer - no other options. Can't listen in the car, on the move with headphones, at the hifi (unless you buy extra equipment, which no-one really wants to do at the moment probably!) and it is lower quality than what went before.
I just don't see how this benefits any of your readership? Can you explain to me what the actual benefits are to your loyal reader base?
I can understand how it benefits the publishers (lower costs) and the record industry even (control over "product"), but not the people that actually subscribe.
Regards,
Austin
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 10:01AM
#11
RE: CD Discontinued RE: CD Discontinued
To utilise the "player", you need a computer. You also need to be able to use it to a level that allows the user access to the player. How many of your readers are able to do that?
I'm not able to comment on most of your comments, as I wasn't involved in the decision to change from the covermount CD to the Gramophone Player.
But I suggest that you are somewhat overstating the knowledge required to access the Player – all one needs to do is register for the site, as you and getting on for 11,000 users have already done, then click the Gramophone Player link.
That's hardly demanding...
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 10:49AM
#12
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
My personal assessment of the sound quality of the web player may be more accurate than some others. I work for a company that have come first in several categories of this years awards (in addition to many others in previous years) and in the case of one winning release from this year I was able to do a direct A/B comparison in the same environment that the CD master was produced. So I’m not talking here about some small PC speakers attached to the analogue output of a motherboard – this was a direct digital connection into a very high quality D-A then onto high end amps and speakers. It was very disheartening to hear that all our hard work was being represented in this way via your web player, particularly if people are going to use this as a factor to judge whether they should purchase a recording. The extract you chose to use suffered badly from the artefacts present with online streaming.
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 12:12PM
#13
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
OK jondee, I admit it - the gramophone player isn't quite as good as this:
However, as someone who works in the industry (and therefore presumably understands the cost of bulk CD manufacture), I'm keen to pick your brains: our brief was to
- extend the length and variety of excerpts available beyond the 74/80min limit of a CD
- offer video
- keep the cost of any proposed replacement - both in terms of creation and ongoing - at a sustainable level
Do you have any suggestions as to how we might do that better than we have done?
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 12:29PM
#14
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
The issues seem to have polarised into two: practicalities and quality. Like others on this thread, very little of my listening, sadly, is done in perfect circumstances, and portability was a key advantage of the CD, typically ripped onto my iPod. I would therefore love to see some or all of the material available to download, perhaps shorter extracts if that's a copyright requirement. I accept the loss of quality, since the alternative is not to listen at all. The chances of my finding time in my diary to sit listening at the computer are very slim.
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 2:02PM
#15
RE: CD Discontinued RE: CD Discontinued
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the reply. I think your comment depends on the level of IT literacy you are assuming that your readership have. For sure, a percentage will be able to access - if they want to. But is is not possible that a substantial percentage will be unable to access even if they wanted too?
I see from your reply that you were not responsible for the move to "player" - can I ask who was and why the decision was made? It would be interesting to learn of the rational for the change over.
Many Thanks,
Austin
I live in the USA and have a slightly different view while fully appreciating the comments which decry the loss of the front cover CD. I love classical music and read Gramaphone Magazine regularly. I applaud Gramaphone editors for taking this bold step and recommend an even bolder move. I'd like to subscribe digitally at a competitive price and have the magazine delivered to my iPad along with monthly music selections and a link to the Gramaphone Player (currently not iPad compatible). I have to wait weeks to purchase a copy here in the USA and at higher prices than subscribers in the U.K. The time is right to push this media forward utilizing the newest technologies.