Covermount CD Discontinuance
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 1:14PM
#2
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
I, too, am deeply disappointed that Gramaphone has elected to discontinue the CD, as I have greatly enjoyed listening to the interviews, and music, while driving. While the arguments for streaming material online are well made, I believe this facility should be as well as, rather than instead of, the monthly CD.
Gaby Smyth
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 2:25PM
#3
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
Hi agavins,
To answer that query if I may, we carried out reader research looking into what our readers want both in terms of music and how they would wish to consume it and based our decisions on that. So far, incidentally, the overwhelming response has been very positive. Not to denigrate those of you who have issues withe the Player, but I do urge you to live with it for a while and I hope that you will see that the marvellous things we put up there will more than compensate for the physical loss of the disc. Has anyone had a chance yet to watch the videos from the Gramophone Awards that we've put up? What do you think of them? And of the winners?
All the best,
James
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 3:10PM
#4
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
Yes, those pathological criminals at Gramophone should all be taken out and shot for daring to stop some of us listening to the covermount CD in our cars even if the vast majority are delighted by such an amazing innovation.
Sense of proportion guys, please!
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 3:25PM
#5
CD Discontinuance
Hi James,
Thanks for your reply. In responce, it is less to do with a "physical media" per se, but more about the (as one other poster put it) quality and convenience.
In this case, the quality (of the reproduction) is reduced (considerably) and it is not as convinient as I have to have a net connection (car, office, walking) to listen to it!
To my mind, music is all about the aural stimulous, I can close my eyes and enjoy the experience, be transported by the music.
The visual aspect is certainly less important. I would be happy with SD Broadcast on the player for visual, but this is about the music. That it the most important thing and I, along with most other people who take their pleasure from music, want the best quality.
That is what Gramaphone, to my mind, is about. The best music by the best composers and the best performances AND the best recordings. What is the point if all of these subtle nuances are lost by compression which chops the tops and bottoms of the aural spectrum. You actually loose music!
With regards to the research carried out, were the readers asked if they wanted the reduction in quality of the music provided in exchange for more of it? Were they asked if they would mind only being able to listen to their music with the assistance of a computer?
I am still to hear from anyone at Gramaphone what the actual benefits to the end user are, other than "more content". Please could you explain to me what the benefits are?
As a stand alone player, if I want to watch the awards, then it would be a fabulous piece of technology, maybe for speech type broadcasting too (interviews with notable performers composers etc).
However, for quality listening over an extended period, their simply are not the numbers of people who have the technology to stream to suitable equipment. Even if they did, it would not resolve the quality of the broadcast or the vagaries of your broadband connection dropping out part way through.
Would it not be possible, as one of your other posters suggested, to run the two formats/versions side by side? This would ensure that the technology can be utilised ("Metropolitan Opera in HD" would be nice on the player:) ) for what it is best at. Everyone else who relies on physical media and downloads (most of the population I would predict) to listen to quality music (such as your selections) would be delighted to receive the CD again.
Alternatively, why not provide the shorter (CD rather than extended player) version available as lossless download? That way people would be able to appreciate the music in a more more natural way rather than being tied to a net connection.
I have the utmost respect for your publication and the quality of the output, your yearly classical music guides are a "must buy" reference for me. I also applaud your embracing this technology and the passion of those (John etc) who have worked on the project.
Regards,
Austin
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 3:35PM
#6
CD Discontinuance
Hi VicJay,
I am not suggesting anyone should be shot, or even that Graphone employees are pathological criminals. I am debating, asking questions, putting forward a point a view on something I have a passion for - quality music.
Your insistance that a "vast majority" are delighted is comforting to me. I am glad to be mistaken. Oh, please could you provide me with your backup to this statement :)
Trust me, I do have a sence of proportion. However, music is important to me as is the quality of the music provided. I simply can not understand why a reduction of quality and convinience is being heralded as a great breakthough? That is also why, I do not back the switching off of the FM network either, not whilst we are stuck with DAB being offered as a poor quality alternative.
In all honesty, can you explain what the improvement is other than an increase in the quantity in relation to the player?
I look forward to reading your thoughts,
All the best,
Austin
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 3:45PM
#7
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
If discontinuing the CD on the font cover is the way to go it will be interesting to see if any of the rival magazines will be doing the same?
"We all want progress but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive"
C S Lewis
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 3:49PM
#8
RE: CD Discontinuance
Hi agavns - just to leap to VicJay's defence, he was actually I think replying to a post which he have removed (a very rare event) because it breached the house rules and which used some of the phrases he cites. I don't think that the line about pathological criminals was aimed at you!
In the meantime we will continue to monitor response to the Player of course, but as I said before I think that if you try to live with it with an open mind for a month or two you may find that the ample compensations in terms of sampling new recordings reveal themselves. You may, of course, not be converted but we will work extremely hard (and it is a huge amount of work as you can imagine to source this much music) to make sure that it remains worth coming back to again and again.
All the best,
James
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 4:48PM
#9
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
EDITED BY MODS - please do not discuss moderation. Please refer to the House Rules
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 4:20PM
#10
RE: CD Discontinuance
...
In this case, the quality (of the reproduction) is reduced (considerably) and it is not as convinient as I have to have a net connection (car, office, walking) to listen to it!
To my mind, music is all about the aural stimulous, I can close my eyes and enjoy the experience, be transported by the music.
...
Regards,
Austin
If the quality of the player means that you keep your eyes open when driving then I think the correct decision was made!
Regards,
the Austin that works here
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 4:52PM
#11
RE: CD Discontinuance
Lol! Excellent point, maybe thats why my insurance premium is so high.....
:)
Regards,
Austin
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 4:58PM
#12
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
Austin,
Yours was a good quote in relation to progress in the hands of the wrong people.
I made fun of it (perhaps insensitively) because it seem so out of proportion, along with several other posts, in relation to the player.
The gain is overwhelming; the loss minimal, is my opinion.
Let me explain. I have faced a barage of criticism here (well, four or five) because I argued for higher quality in relation to bit rate sampling. I am a passionate supporter of the highest quality possible for music reproduction. But that's not what the player is about, it seems to me. It's a sampler, a taster, not a benchmark. I listen to Radio 3's Building a Library to get to know about different versions. I know that when I buy the disc or download it will sound much, much better on my system. Same with the Gramophone Player.
As for the convenience issue. Well yes, for some it's a bummer. But it's not the end of the world. The gains far outweigh the loss for the majority. The word "vast" seems about right if the figures quoted for use so far compared with the handful on this forum.
On top of all that, this it the way things are moving. Someone quoted FM as a standard but it's obsolete now. High bitrate internet radio is far superior. The CD is nearing the end of its life like the cassette tape before it. Digital streaming is here, better, and growing.
Added to that, the volume of material that the Player is capable of delivering is the biggest plus of all.
Most of these objections seem inflated and out of proportion to me. And I wonder how many of them have given it a fair hearing yet.
Sorry if my humour offended.
Vic.
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 7:27PM
#13
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
I am seriously considering not buying the magazine any more, not because I'm incensed enough to make a protest about the loss of the CD (I'm not happy about it, but I imagine the PTB aren't going to swayed by many emotional pleas) but because the magazine no longer provides what I want from it. The CD gave me the freedom to listen to excerpts on the move, and I often bought CDs on the strength of these. I don't honestly feel inclined to go to what appears to me to be the ridiculous lengths of connecting one's computer to a h-fi system in order to access the music, or to sit for long periods at my laptop accessing the tracks. The purpose of the CD, as I understood it, was to provide easily accessible examples and this accessibility has been lost. I would welcome an option to download what would have been the covermount tracks, but as far as I can see this is not available. On a side note I am deeply suspicious of any organisation's IT Department since their aim always seems to be (and this is borne out by long experience in various areas) not to provide what the end consumer actually wants, but to demonstrate how clever they are, while insisting that we need to move forward and that this will be a much better experience all round for everyone. Sadly, it seldom turns out that way.
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 8:04PM
#14
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
On a side note I am deeply suspicious of any organisation's IT Department since their aim always seems to be (and this is borne out by long experience in various areas) not to provide what the end consumer actually wants, but to demonstrate how clever they are, while insisting that we need to move forward and that this will be a much better experience all round for everyone. Sadly, it seldom turns out that way.
Please do not apply your past experience to our web delivery team, at least one of whom is taking full part in this discussion, and who is also open to suggestions of how we can improve the service within the constraints of the bandwidth and formatting available for the Gramophone Player, as he has already indicated in this thread.
Fri, Oct 8 2010, 8:35PM
#15
RE: Covermount CD Discontinuance
I would like to point out that the team that put the website together and look after it have nothing to do with the IT Department in this organisation. We are part of the editorial teams and processes and at no point do we report to anyone within IT.
Hi John,
Are those B&W D's and Classe power amps - that is a heck of a home set up :)
In relation to the points you raise here, can I ask if their was a consumer led demand for extended and more various samples of music and video? Was your core readership asked if this was something they would require?
Regards,
Austin