Do any sane people like classical music?
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 1:01PM
The more convinced I’m becoming that a large proportion of the audience for classical music are barking mad – at least to judge from this discussion board. And so I was wondering whether there is a link between the consumers of classical music and insanity.
Consider the evidence: we have just had Brodsky (under one of his many noms de plume) suggesting that allowing people to clap between movements of a symphony is a sign of the impending self-destruction of western civilisation, dominated as it is with ‘drugged-up criminal chavs’, egged on by the mindless liberals at the BBC.
He has posted many other statements in a similar vein and, although we can acknowledge an element of self-parody here, it seems not unreasonable to suggest he actually believes in the general tenor of what he says – that anyone who fails to recognise the greatness of Beethoven and Mozart is little more than sub-human detritus who deserves nothing but contempt. Indeed, his main purpose in posting at all appears to be to urge others to show the same contempt as he does to anyone with the temerity not to share his own taste in music.
And then we have Parla who seems to have little to do with his life other than to hijack and dominate every topic on this board until everyone else gets so frustrated that they disappear for ever.
I might have dreamt this, but I seem to recall him making a statement to the effect that Beethoven’s 9th is great (as an objective fact) because Beethoven thought it was great when he wrote it. But I certainly do remember well his oft-repeated insistence that classical music is superior to all other genres because it uniquely has a written score. I also rather relish his statement that there is an affinity between Mozart’s symphony 40 and Don Giovanni because they are both in G minor – and he wasn’t fazed when he was told that Don Giovanni was actually in D minor.
And who could forget his refusal to admit that his professed knowledge of all things classical was less than absolute when it was demonstrated that he had simply cut and pasted text from Wikipedia and tried to pass it off as his own considered thoughts. Mad clearly.
But the strangest thing about Parla, for all his claims that he listens for hours and hours everyday to music and has a full work and family life to occupy him, he has managed to post over 1,200 messages in less than a year. When does he find the time to fit that in?
So I hope our insane colleagues won’t mind a message from the sane: the fact that you like classical music does not make you superior, more sophisticated or more intelligent (obviously) than those who do not. So for all your dismissals of other people on the grounds you are better than them, I think you’ll find that in the hierarchy of common sense it is the bigots, charlatans and fools like you who are at the bottom of the heap.
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 3:26PM
#2
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Parla is a complete and utter phony on here to promote himself.
A sad lonely loony wandering the site makes you wonder how many other sites have the disbenefit of his contributions. I almost feel sorry for him. Almost, until another load of old tosh turns up in a lengthy and tiresome post
I think one must be careful not to confuse the ravings of a minority with the experation of the majority.
Vic summed it up perfectly.
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 3:28PM
#3
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Sane?
If you say to someone that he is 'common' he will be offended (and may slosh you one, if he is Troyen).
If you say to someone he is 'average' he will probably not be too pleased.
But if you tell someone they are not 'normal' you will probably be in trouble.
But....
I've never regarded being normal as important. I've spent far more of my time, money and effort in learning, studying and loving classical music to be normal, and an insane amount of time and effort (and money) travelling to concerts, recitals, operas, near and far, ridiculous sums on my hi-fi and music room, CDs, scores and goodness knows what else.
Yes, I plead insanity, and it has given me infinitely more satisfaction over more than 50 years than most of the 'sane' things I have done. Yes, guilty, definitely.
But.....
Beware those who claim that their views represent sanity. How can they be sure?
Chris
[PS; And I've enjoyed discussing in this Forum with others similarly afflicted, but I won't name them in case they are offended].
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 4:11PM
#4
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Notice Craig how we haven't had, 'It's a fair cop guv, ok I borrowed a few bits. I promise I won't do it again etc....' to the example of multiple plagiarism given in another recent thread!
That would be a normal and ethical response Parla.
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 4:20PM
#5
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
So, now we play even the card of "sanity". Well, go ahead. No problem!
You're wasting your time trying to "define" me or discourage me (and anyone one who may be associated with or have the slightest sympathy for me) instead of dealing with the music you're supposed to "like". But, what can we do? This world is colourful. we have all kind of everything.
Chris put "our situation" in a very well articulated way. You have to be "insane" to devote yourself to an Art, where you have to spend a fortune, much time and enormous efforts to comprehend, attend concerts, participate in events and listen extensively to as many works as possible, as many times as possible.
Despite the fact I find extremely low the fact that some people use any possible way to attack other members of the forum, as long as the moderators allow it, go ahead. You'll hurt the forum, not anonymous posters.
Parla
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 4:58PM
#6
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
It's interesting (though not remotely surprising) that Parla is seeking to turn a general thread as if it were all about him. No-one as far as I'm aware is trying to 'define' him (other than a self-important charlatan), but he responds as if they were. Yawn.
The question is why should classical music attract people who are insane - in the sense of Brodsky's mad rantings about chavs and the BBC, or Parla's belief in his own superiority simply on the basis of his record collection. The responses from Parla and Chris seem to confirm my hypothesis, but I've seen no suggestion of why this might be the case.
Do people with an interest in chess or Byzantine architecture or military history consider themselves superior to everyone who doesn't share that interest? So why is classical music special? In other words - to restate my opening question - why are nutcases attracted to classical music?
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 10:07PM
#7
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
I do have some problem with da paranoia due to me smoking habit. An some say I be a bit skitso. But me like ta chill with da Brahms an me head feel better.
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 10:25PM
#8
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
It's interesting how convenient you like to see things, Craig, to make your "hypothesis" and come to conclusions of your own interpretation of the evidence given by other posters.
I don't plan to "turn a general thread as if it were all about me", but I cannot overlook the fact that your "hypothesis" of the introductory note dedicates five paragraphs on Parla, to "prove" people like me are "insane". Yes, you may not try to "define" me. You go much further. Once more, you call me all the possible names to qualify me for the subject of this thread, along with people like Chris, JeffYoung, etc. In any case, I won't return the favour, as I never did.
Your "question" is an artificial one, based on equally artificial assumptions. I never said I am superior, because I know music, to some more extent than an average listener, much more on account of my vast record collection. It is your problematic perception that, whoever speaks about the need to deepen his knowledge and expand his experience in Classical Music, claims to be superior. On the contrary, all those who do not wish to agree, to follow our advice, call us superior, see us as elitist, characterise our posts as pompous and many more. JeffYoung was very clear in his Jubilee thread. Fortunately, he didn't attract your "attention".
By the way, most of my professional and some social friends do not share my "interest" in Classical Music. They never felt I treated them as inferiors and they never consider me that I behave as superior. Incidentally, I have nothing against people who, in all their sincerity, do not care about Classical Music. My problem is, in this forum, that I truly care about our forum members, who are supposed to have interest in Classical Music, but they refrain from making this extra mile to find more and, eventually, enjoy more.
For your quest, please kindly be informed that a great deal of people, who have an interest in Classical Music, are very quiet, inward and socially friendly persons. Most of them are good family people and professionally quite consistent, dedicated to their work and, sometimes, very successful. Not too many features of "insane" people, I would suggest.
Anyhow, good luck in your hypothetical question.
Parla
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 10:32PM
#9
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
There is something appallingly self-regarding about many of those in the classical world because, simply by association, it is assumed to give one a gravitas that is not available to those who listen to other forms of music. It must be very reassuring, as the insecure listener clutches his sacred score, to know that there is so much money and tradition to refer to when a defense of ones position needs to be made. However, as we see here so often, it all ends up seeming a bit desperate. The assumed superiority begins to fray. Knowing the intricacies of the late Beethoven quartets is a great comfort, but if it excludes you from appreciating the many wonders of those types of music, from all around the world, which exist without a score, or the absolutely in-the-minute involvement of improvised music, then you are only experiencing a little of what music, in its true and widest definition, has to offer.
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 10:38PM
#10
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Last time I asked Mrs P and Phlogistette, they were both quite certain that I am not sane, and never have been.
If my nearest and dearest feel that way, what hope have I from the rest of the population?
More seriously, I don't spend tooo much time worrying about the mental health of my fellow posters - I take people on the basis of the (multiple)personae they project, recognising that the online persona may be complementary to their real world personality.
Best wishes
P
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 10:56PM
#11
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
The "assumed superiority"? Assumed by the "others", not by the ones who deal with Classical Music (as I explained in my previous post). So, there is nothing to..."fray", except our foolish assumptions.
The "intricacies" of the Late String Quartets by Beethoven do not give simply a "great comfort"; they offer the essence of the most sublime and, at the same time, complex Music. Definitely, they cannot "exclude" me (or any other who wishes to get more involved in Classical Music) from appreciating the "many wonders (?) of those types of music, from all over the world...". On the contrary, as I travel extensively, I am exposed to all those types of music, which I enjoy for the moment, but I cannot refer to them as lasting and definitive pieces of Music. Much more, for the "in-the-minute involvement of improvised music", I thoroughly enjoy a jazz session, but as a performance of the present, not as a composition of the future and for the posterity. Even the recording of this session serves as a souvenir of the performance. That's all!
By the way, I would love to know the "true and widest definition" of Music.
Parla
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 11:04PM
#12
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Can't you people just go to a concert or put on a CD and sit back and relax without analyzing everything to death. Just enjoy the music. It may calm your obviously frazzled nerves. (See what you've done - now I'm frazzled too!)
Tue, Jun 19 2012, 12:15AM
#13
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
On and on he prattles with three posts already trying to justify his existence.
Apparently, he has a "point of view" he desires to "share" with us.
And, also, the 'saurus, between bewailing the awfulness of the liberal modern world, likes that old German sentimentalist: Brahms!
Well, who would have thunk it?
Tue, Jun 19 2012, 4:52AM
#14
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
I think that there is quite a gap between what people perceive as the true state of those who listen to classical music as opposed to those who just like it. And though the basis for their claims is something that could really hold true, that is not to say much, or judge the whole community as one. Not quite fair, if you ask me but I guess that is how they see everything to be fit.
Thu, Jun 21 2012, 1:41PM
#15
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
"So I hope our insane colleagues won’t mind a message from the sane: the fact that you like classical music does not make you superior, more sophisticated or more intelligent (obviously) than those who do not. So for all your dismissals of other people on the grounds you are better than them, I think you’ll find that in the hierarchy of common sense it is the bigots, charlatans and fools like you who are at the bottom of the heap."
We have only your word to take for it that you are saner than others on this forum. I would say that listening to classical musical can help to make one more intelligent, broader minded, more open to a wider range and depth of feelings, in short a better human being than some mindless oaf who sits swigging lager from a can with rap blasting in his ears.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZC6Ot1MLP0