Do any sane people like classical music?
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 12:33AM
#2
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Naupilus, it does not "corollate" always, but, when it does not, it is the humans' limitations, weakness that bring them down to lack of civility, intelligence or humanity. Not Classical Music's nature. In other words, we can never claim that, because Hitler adored Beethoven and Wagner, their music can create dictators, fascists, etc.
By the way, "Clockwork Orange" is a comedy for quite a few, including me. A poor one, though.
Parla
Parla, if you are correct and it is wrong to claim that the music of Wagner or Beethoven 'creates' dictators, then does corollary hold true - that listening to classical music will not, on its own, make one a better person?
If you feel the answer to this question is no, classical music can make one better, then please provide me with an example of a piece of music that makes us more civil, as we could do with playing that on the local transport I take each day.
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 8:19AM
#3
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
By the way, "Clockwork Orange" is a comedy for quite a few, including me. A poor one, though.
Parla
Parla, if you are correct and it is wrong to claim that the music of Wagner or Beethoven 'creates' dictators, then does corollary hold true - that listening to classical music will not, on its own, make one a better person?
If you feel the answer to this question is no, classical music can make one better, then please provide me with an example of a piece of music that makes us more civil, as we could do with playing that on the local transport I take each day.
Classical music did make Hitler a better person, so did his love of painting. However his love wasn't strong enough and his hatred too deep. If Hitler had been a lager drinking, gold chain wearing, pit bull terrier dragging, tattooed, rap loving English chav he would have rampaged through Europe far sooner but maybe for only two weeks every year. Clockwork Orange proves that classical music can help poor deluded souls, but it is not enough on it's own. There is a visionary character in a Clockwork Orange that realises this and uses stronger means to control the criminals of society (Ludovico technique) he brings the criminals and mass murders of this world to their kness, Dr something, can't remember his name. What a hero, none of victors ineffective liberal woolyness for him. A Clockwork Orange is a beautiful, funny incite into the world of mindless criminal youth. But read it (the first version) don't watch the film.
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 8:50AM
#4
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Is there a Mr Godwin here? Taxi for Mr Godwin!
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 9:22AM
#5
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Is there a Mr Godwin here? Taxi for Mr Godwin!
Andrew, does Mr Godwin get paid by the hour or by the post?
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 9:34AM
#6
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Alice, read the book did not find it that interesting. I was sixteen at the time and seem to remember being more interested in Malcom X at the time. But, given such a strong recommendation I think I will read it again. Thank you Alice.
PS - A thought just occured to me. Is this all some sort of aversion therapy for you?
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 9:39AM
#7
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
PS - A thought just occured to me. Is this all some sort of aversion therapy for you?
You think I am using you for my own ends. Interesting.
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 10:20AM
#8
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Andrew, does Mr Godwin get paid by the hour or by the post?
I think he's on a retainer, given that he'll eventually be required for almost every thread on every forum on the internet.
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 10:35AM
#9
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
PS - A thought just occured to me. Is this all some sort of aversion therapy for you?
You think I am using you for my own ends. Interesting.
Actually I was thinking of the forum in general. But happy to be of service.
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 12:51PM
#10
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Alice, read the book did not find it that interesting. I was sixteen at the time and seem to remember being more interested in Malcom X at the time. But, given such a strong recommendation I think I will read it again. Thank you Alice.
Don't make the mistake of reading 'Alex' as a sort of hero. He is nothing of the sort, he is just a naughty little boy who didn't get his bottom smacked enough when he was a child (I speak from experience). I think we can now reset A Clockwork Orange in the past, it is England under the Labour rule of Michael (Donkey jacket) Foot (one foot in Russia), perhaps in his second term. Of course the heavily russian influenced English sounds silly today, as heavily LA influenced english will sound silly in 50 years time. But it is interesting to read Vladimir Ashkenazy's 'Beyond Frontiers' were he looks forward to the future of music under communism. Ashkenazy's book was published in 1985 and things changed very quickly, but he gives you an idea of the power the soviet state had over his feelings.
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 3:16PM
#11
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Don't make the mistake of reading 'Alex' as a sort of hero. He is nothing of the sort, he is just a naughty little boy who didn't get his bottom smacked enough when he was a child (I speak from experience). I think we can now reset A Clockwork Orange in the past, it is England under the Labour rule of Michael (Donkey jacket) Foot (one foot in Russia), perhaps in his second term. Of course the heavily russian influenced English sounds silly today, as heavily LA influenced english will sound silly in 50 years time. But it is interesting to read Vladimir Ashkenazy's 'Beyond Frontiers' were he looks forward to the future of music under communism. Ashkenazy's book was published in 1985 and things changed very quickly, but he gives you an idea of the power the soviet state had over his feelings.
Michael Foot... I only encountered him once, when as a family we were down in London and he basically barged past my parents as we were strolling through Hampstead. Appeared quite a sullen chap. Tony Benn was much more fun.
I don't think I ever saw Alex as a hero (or anti-hero). He just seemed one of those boring characters who was almost a stereotype... as Holden Caulfield would say, a phoney. But maybe that was because I was sixteen and thought everybody was phoney, save for Breton Breytenbach.
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 5:34PM
#12
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Michael Foot... I only encountered him once, when as a family we were down in London and he basically barged past my parents as we were strolling through Hampstead. Appeared quite a sullen chap. Tony Benn was much more fun.
I don't think I ever saw Alex as a hero (or anti-hero). He just seemed one of those boring characters who was almost a stereotype... as Holden Caulfield would say, a phoney. But maybe that was because I was sixteen and thought everybody was phoney, save for Breton Breytenbach.
Of course Michael Foot was sullen, he had to live in Plymouth. Tony (a bit too alarmist for me) Benn should always be on the opposition bench, whoever is in power, he's like Germaine Greer, you can quite often hear the most naive waffle you have ever heard from them and then suddenly a gem of wisdom and you think 'yes of course, I'd never though of it that way before.' but just don't give them any power.
Yes Alex is a cartoon character, the book is a small potboiler rushed off, but sometimes we say our most profound things when we are just rushing off a response to something and not thinking too hard.
Sun, Jun 24 2012, 10:26PM
#13
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
..... If Hitler had been a lager drinking, gold chain wearing, pit bull terrier dragging, tattooed, rap loving English chav................
Good old Neville Chamberlain.
Mon, Jun 25 2012, 5:35PM
#14
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Why has the 'Awfulness of classical music' thread been removed? Has my criticism of Martin Everard anything to do with its disappearance?
Mon, Jun 25 2012, 8:23PM
#15
RE: Do any sane people like classical music?
Why has the 'Awfulness of classical music' thread been removed? Has my criticism of Martin Everard anything to do with its disappearance?
I think it just curled up and died, even Anlin lost interest. However you could always test your theory. Start a thread criticising Martin Everard (whoever he is !) and see if it gets removed. However if it doesn't and you get no replies you might have to reconsider the influence you think you have around here, might be a bit embarrassing for you.
Naupilus, it does not "corollate" always, but, when it does not, it is the humans' limitations, weakness that bring them down to lack of civility, intelligence or humanity. Not Classical Music's nature. In other words, we can never claim that, because Hitler adored Beethoven and Wagner, their music can create dictators, fascists, etc.
By the way, "Clockwork Orange" is a comedy for quite a few, including me. A poor one, though.
Parla
P.S.: I know a lot of people who do incredible things (including stupid ones) by listening to Beethoven's Ninth (see the potential anthem of the EU!). So, it's not only "Clockwork Orange".