Easter
Mon, Apr 23 2012, 12:44AM
#2
RE: Easter
Thanks for the feedback, Mark, and so glad you enjoyed it. Was it sung in English? I have to say I can't imagine Manolios sung by anybody but Arthur Davies, who does a magnificent job it in the Mackerras version.
Now let's keep our fingers crossed for a modern recording of Julietta.
Mon, Apr 23 2012, 8:50AM
#3
RE: Easter
No actually it was sung in Czech!
Cheers
Mark
Mon, Apr 23 2012, 11:48AM
#4
RE: Easter
I may understand your thrill, Mark, but for those who manage to appreciate the original work of Kazantzakis, Martinu's efforts, even with all the musical conventions, do not seem to serve neither the work nor the general scope of it. The fact that it is a sort of marginal work in the world scene proves that.
By the way, even the original work has serious challenges for the unprepared reader. It is not at all an easy work to cope with. So, imagine how it feels when you try to put in the Opera field. I suspect Skalkotas might have had a better try, but he didn't dare.
Parla
Mon, Apr 23 2012, 3:27PM
#5
RE: Easter
Thankyou Parla for your gracious understanding!
Do we have to read the book now before we listen to the opera? Damn it! That means I still can't get around to watching Cold Mountain until I've read the novel.
After seeing Billy Budd many moons ago at Liverpool Opera House I found Melville's book a bit tedious.
Anyway Parla, a wise old prof (yes I have met the odd one) from the RNCM once told me when we were running through 20th C composers of interest that Skalkottas was 'curiously unappealing music'. A phrase which has stuck in my mind, and which I fear has probably influenced my as yet decision to explore others.
Regards
Mark
Mon, Apr 23 2012, 3:48PM
#6
RE: Easter
Thankyou Parla for your gracious understanding!
Do we have to read the book now before we listen to the opera? Damn it! That means I still can't get around to watching Cold Mountain until I've read the novel.
After seeing Billy Budd many moons ago at Liverpool Opera House I found Melville's book a bit tedious.
Anyway Parla, a wise old prof (yes I have met the odd one) from the RNCM once told me when we were running through 20th C composers of interest that Skalkottas was 'curiously unappealing music'. A phrase which has stuck in my mind, and which I fear has probably influenced my as yet decision to explore others.
Regards
Mark
But the Greek Dances are quite appealing. A bit like the Slavonic Dances, only Greek.
These were issued by BIS with the BBCSO coupled with a twelve tone piece of forgettable nonsense that lasts forever.
Worth a try?
Admittedly it did not start a stampede among the record companies to record any more Skalkottas.
Mon, Apr 23 2012, 4:47PM
#7
RE: Easter
Yeh ok Troyen, I'll put that one on my list.
I have over the years explored a fair number of 20th C composers, although some only a little (like Gerhard for example). Thanks for the rec - maybe it's time I gave him a try.
Mark
Mon, Apr 23 2012, 7:17PM
#8
RE: Easter
No, Mark, you don't have to read the book before you listen to the Opera. However, in this case, the controversy, the idiomatic locality of the unfolding of the story can become a very slippery ground for the musical development of the plot. Besides, we are not in the conventions of the Baroque or Gluck and Mozart era, where the composer had limited means of musical expression, including the critical one of instrumentation, and had to create a pleasant Opera out of a straightforward ancient Greek tragedy.
The "Greek Dances" are not composed by Skalkottas. They are original Greek folk dances (that's why they are "appealing"), that he decided to orchestrate only. Due to their success, he decided to rewrite some more (using some original material in the later set of them). He himself considered the "Dances" as the least interesting of his works, since he has composed a rather enormous amount of works of considerable difficulty, in a post-Schoenberg style, while some of his works are quite tonal too. I think BIS contributed very productively and constructively to revealing a great deal of his work, which might be of some considerable interest to fans of 20th century music. Definitely, his music is not more or less "appealing" than any other composer who had indulged in atonal, polytonal, serial and the second school of Vienna music, in general. Some of his significant works are of national character (The Sea, Greek Suite, The Return of Ulysses). His Chamber and Piano Music is also quite interesting.
Parla
Tue, Apr 24 2012, 12:40AM
#9
RE: Easter
Yeh ok Troyen, I'll put that one on my list.
I have over the years explored a fair number of 20th C composers, although some only a little (like Gerhard for example). Thanks for the rec - maybe it's time I gave him a try.
Mark
Better still try Casella, Malipiero and Irgens-Jensen on Naxos.
Possibly the three Naxos discs will be cheaper than the two BIS.
Tue, Apr 24 2012, 12:46AM
#10
RE: Easter
No, Mark, you don't have to read the book before you listen to the Opera. However, in this case, the controversy, the idiomatic locality of the unfolding of the story can become a very slippery ground for the musical development of the plot. Besides, we are not in the conventions of the Baroque or Gluck and Mozart era, where the composer had limited means of musical expression, including the critical one of instrumentation, and had to create a pleasant Opera out of a straightforward ancient Greek tragedy.
The "Greek Dances" are not composed by Skalkottas. They are original Greek folk dances (that's why they are "appealing"), that he decided to orchestrate only. Due to their success, he decided to rewrite some more (using some original material in the later set of them). He himself considered the "Dances" as the least interesting of his works, since he has composed a rather enormous amount of works of considerable difficulty, in a post-Schoenberg style, while some of his works are quite tonal too. I think BIS contributed very productively and constructively to revealing a great deal of his work, which might be of some considerable interest to fans of 20th century music. Definitely, his music is not more or less "appealing" than any other composer who had indulged in atonal, polytonal, serial and the second school of Vienna music, in general. Some of his significant works are of national character (The Sea, Greek Suite, The Return of Ulysses). His Chamber and Piano Music is also quite interesting.
Parla
That's it: The Return of Ulysses.
I know it took a long time for him to get home to Penelope but Skalkottas makes it seem even longer. Bruckner's a doddle after this!
I know a composer who could be less interesting than Skalkottas in the twelve tone stakes: Searle.
Rarely performed these days and it is only when you hear his stuff do you realise why. Stravinsky liked him, I believe.
I'm sure you know all about him, Parla, or will after you have Googled him.
Tue, Apr 24 2012, 1:05AM
#11
RE: Easter
Have you listened to the "Return of Ulysses", Troyen?
Searle is the least of my concerns or interests, by the way. Skalkottas was at least so prolific and committed to his Art.
Parla
Tue, Apr 24 2012, 1:42PM
#12
RE: Easter
Hi Parla!
I thought the Martinu opera was wonderful.
In terms of the drama, it furnishes much food for thought, as it deals with the theme of exile, to simplify things a bit.
The exiled villagers present a real and unfolding tragedy before the Greek villagers immersed in the roles they have been assigned in re-enacting the tragic story of the passion.
Ironically, the villagers become exiled from their real selves - thus Katerina as Mary Magdalene begins to harbour feelings for Manolios as Christ, while Manolios loses interest in his betrothed Lenio as he is so wrapped up in living his part, Yannakos as Peter succumbs to the fool's gold offered by Ladas but then later repents, and Panait as Judas finally commits the senseless act of killing Manolios. Even Grigoris, the elder, fails to feel compassion for the exiled villagers and treats them with mistrust, and finally banishes Manolios for being too radical, before Panait commits the murder.
In other words the characters move away from their real selves as they become the characters they are playing. Manolios as Christ threatens the established order with his preaching and displeases the elder statesman Grigoris.
As their real selves, would they have shown compassion towards the dispossessed villagers? Ironically, by immersing themselves in the parts they are playing they move further away from human values such as love, compassion and tolerance etc...and end up repeating the tragedy of the passion of Christ.
The fantastic drama Parla would have worked as pure drama alright, and if it works as drama then it also works as sung drama, which is opera. It has the tensions and ironies needed to make it come alive as drama, so although I don't know the novel I am a bit puzzled by your saying that it doesn't serve Kazanzakis' original. For me the drama is there alright. Can you eplain what you mean when you say that it doesn't serve the novel?
And can we really say that such and such a composer might have made a better job of the text or the subject? Not sure we can say that. Can I say that Oliver Knussen might have made a better job of Billy Budd or Peter Grimes than Britten did? We can say that it might have been interesting if such and such had attempted such and such, but we can't really say it would have been better as that is just speculation.
Cheers
Mark
Tue, Apr 24 2012, 4:37PM
#13
RE: Easter
Good for you, Mark, if you find Martinu's Opera "wonderful".
The problem is that there is no drama in the first place. This work of Kazantzakis uses the means of literature to challenge the issues of faith and the role of Jesus as the son of God. The work is more a philosophical/ideological/ religious question, served by the plot and its allegory. The whole endeavour of the writer cannot hide his confrontational attitude with the Greek Orthodox Church.
Martinu, as a Czech, could not get all these nuances, since he knew very little about the distinctive features of the background and the vicissitudes of the Orthodox Church. He decided to serve the plot and, as a "drama", one may like his approach and his musical language. I, from my perspective, I found it as leading astray.
My "speculation" about Skalkottas lies on the fact that he was a keen, Greek composer, sober enough to be far from religious issues but not declaring himself as "atheist". Of course, Skalkottas had other difficulties with the Opera itself, but he might have treated the work as an allegory-oratorio work. Kalomoiris, another very keen nationalist Greek Opera composer, would have never approached the work, since he was a fervent Christian Orthodox.
Best wishes,
Parla
Tue, Apr 24 2012, 7:05PM
#14
RE: Easter
The problem is that there is no drama in the first place. The work is more a philosophical/ideological/ religious question, served by the plot and its allegory.
Parla
And what's Parsifal?
Tue, Apr 24 2012, 11:21PM
#15
RE: Easter
Application for permission to listen to a marginal opera:
FAO: Parla
Title of Opera:
In the Penal Colony
Composer:
Philip Glass
Reason for wishing to listen to it:
It was reviewed in this month’s Gramophone Magazine
Background research:
Er…well I’ve read a couple of books by Kafka before and that story about the bloke who turns into a big insect so silly me I thought it might be interesting.
How highly do you rate Donizetti?:
I don’t rate him at all to be honest I thought he was absolutely shocking in the match against Bayern Munich and should have been taken off at half-time.
What do you think of Wagner’s Ring?
I never knew he was married always thought he looked camper than a van myself.
Whose version of Fidelio do you own?
Look right I didn’t ask any questions the bloke on the market said it had fallen off the back of a lorry.
Please name your favourite conductor:
I didn’t like any of them they were all rude and officious apart from Gary the Knuckle Duster. Anyway the drivers take the fares now so it saves a lot of messing about. I suppose it’s two jobs for the price of one but that’s the government for you.
Please state how the work will enhance the classical tradition:
Er…No idea ‘cos I haven’t heard it yet.
Please provide the names of three referees:
Howard Webb (he refereed the world cup final), mi dad who keeps telling me to listen to more opera and the writer what reviewed it in the magazine.
Do you have any conditions or ailments you should disclose?:
Well I like to explore suggestions and recommendations especially if they seem interesting so I suppose I suffer from having an open mind.
What do you think you will think of the piece?
I think I’ll probably like it but you won’t and there’ll be loads of arguing.
Thanks for the recommendation Tagalie re: The Greek Passion. I thought it was an exceptional work.
Lots of highlights, so here are a few which stood out for me: - Act 1 track 3 where the villagers contemplate their roles and track 4, where the lamentations of the exiled villagers get closer and the bells start ringing.
Act 2 track 9 - Yannokos reads the parable of the sower, and track 10 where Ladas propositions his greedy plan to Yannakos - spoken interlude. Amazing!
On Cd 2 - Manolios asks Nikolio to play his shepherd's pipe and reveals the phantoms that are haunting him.
Track 3 - Manolios visits Katerina in her cottage.
And what can I say about the last three scenes - 12, 13 and 14? Track 12 where Panait as Judas runs out and kills Manolios, and the last two scenes where Fotis and the people pray for the dead Manolios and the people beseech Christ for mercy - astonishing stuff.
I was impressed by all of it really - the orchestral writing, the use of haunting oboe/ca lines, the lamentations from afar of the crowd of dispossessed villagers, the bells, the spoken moments, the use of the recurring leitmotiv - it was excellently conceived and scored for me, and deeply moving.
The drama of course is all about how the characters become their parts, and how Manolios as Christ only invites condemnation because he is becoming too radical, while the real tragedy is unfolding of the exiled poor folk - I honestly found it gripping.
The punch-line to me is Manolios' message that God's will enters the human soul gently and gradually in the form of compassion - wow!
As far as this performance and recording go by Pesek et al Tagalie, the version you mention conducted by Mackerras is going to have to go some way! Damn fine singers these Czechs!
Cheers
Mark
PS Sorry Parla but I did find it a real thrill!