Edward Elgar's Enigma- Solution and Confirmation

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dnlsanta
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RE: Edward Elgar's Enigma- Solution and Confirmation

Peter Street wrote:

For a clue, the ambiguity rating for that is a bit high, surely? Are you arguing that the theme was itself composed out of set purpose as a cipher for the two modes of pi?  

A riddle (enigma) is supposed to full of ambiguity.  What is black and white and red/read all over?"

I am arguing that Elgar set about to create a riddle/puzzle/enigma by developing a melody which was constrained by incorporating THREE modes of Pi.  Decimal Pi was hinted in the first four notes.  Fractional Pi was hinted at by the 2/7 precisely after the first 11 notes, 11 x 2/7 =22/7.  (This is a very ingenious way to put fractional Pi in a melody.  I can think of no other and I never would have thought to do it as he did.)  Thirdly, as he was fond of nursery rhymes and puns, he wanted in incorporate "Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie/Pi."  He gave us a hint at this by writing in 1899 that the enigma had a "dark saying."  Blackbirds are dark, and again he fooled everyone by his clever use of language.

 

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dnlsanta
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RE: Edward Elgar's Enigma- Solution and Confirmation

Peter Street wrote:

In which case, since a circle of friends is a circumference, shouldn't we be looking for 2 pi r, or pi d?  Mind you, if either does turn up, I might be fairly close to having to eat my hat!

Pi is a constant in all circles.  (His circle of friends.)

The enigma is Pi.  It is not circumference, diameter, or area.

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RE: Edward Elgar's Enigma- Solution and Confirmation

Peter Street wrote:

And do you really need 22 over 7?  I don't think yet that pi can be the primary solution, but it is certainly worth a lot more thought.

Pi is usually approximated as 3.142 or as 22/7.  The fact that three references to Pi can be found in the first six bars followed by a double bar indicate to me that Elgar intended to use "Pi" in three different ways.  That could hardly be a coincidence

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Peter Street
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RE: Edward Elgar's Enigma- Solution and Confirmation

I think it might be a good idea to sum up.   You agree that at the time of the composition's gestation, Elgar is not recorded as having shown any particular interest in pi.  I don't see any suggestion from you that Lady Elgar's account of the evolution of the theme as an improvisation is to be discounted.  Neither of us at the moment can be sure that Elgar even knew about the Indiana pi Bill, though that may well turn out to be a red herring either way in any case.   You have not shown, with respect, that the 1929 piano roll notes are written in a way significantly different from normal analytical notes, or that the features mentioned and highlighted have a significance unique to pi as the solution to the puzzle.    (That is what I meant when I referred to ambiguity).  However, it is unarguably the case that 3.142 is present in the opening phrase, and that is certainly a point of unusual interest, in the context.  I am, myself, very tempted by the presence of D as the next melodic note after the opening phrase.  

I am less sure about the other occurences you suggest may be in the first six bars,  partly because accepting the idea involves a change of cipher to accommodate them, and a sequence that cannot be grasped by a normal musical ear without close study of the score, and also places  what seems to me to be too much strain upon a piece of  technical analytical prose written, after all, as a chore, at a time when Elgar's finances were not what they had once been and he could not afford to turn down a commission even for pianola roll notes.  And the falling seventh is Elgar's best known melodic fingerprint, which is why - to my mind at least - the presence of one, or even two of them in any theme of his doesn't convince me beyond reasonable doubt that they must be linked to fractional pi.

 Of course this does not rule out that he may have seen the  pianola notes as an opportunity to enlarge on a solution to  the enigma.   Is there any other evidence from them, other than the three sentences you quote, that he did?   Does he mention in them anything not recorded elsewhere about the 'friends pictured within', or even use the word circle?  Elgar certainly did seem to expect that the solution to the puzzle would be easily apparent to the first audiences, and professedly at least, continued to be surprised that it hadn't been.     He also seems to have confirmed that the theme which 'goes but is not played' is actually a musical one.    From a composer who titled the work "Variations on an original Theme" that would seem in any case to be common sense.

Now it may very well be the case that Elgar had actually worked out the first six bars of his theme, or even the whole of it, on the idea of pi, before he risked playing it to his wife.   But in that case we do have to reject her account of the evening as a piece of romantic fiction.   Which could well mean that a good deal of Elgar biography for which she is also an important source would have to be dubious unless it could be confirmed independently.   Elgar's own indications about the way his inspiration worked are usually pretty vague, but he seems to have expressed belief in inspiration while quite happily cobbling together material from the compositions of his adolescence with work from thirty or forty years later, so what happened when he improvised ( and he claimed to hate the piano) is anyone's guess (not quite, because we have some recordings - one of which happily draws on "L'Elisir d'Amore" for a sort of extended doodle).  But the ten bar theme of the variations looks and sounds very like something from an improvisation - the rising scale, the sequences of the middle four bars and the return to the first section, the mirror inversions, all of which, of course offer open doors to variation technique. And had the theme not been used as a basis for variations about Elgar's friends, but, say, for a violin salon piece, or a part song, the references to pi you believe to be present in it  would be quite meaningless, because there would be no circle of any kind for it to refer to.   To satisfy your argument Elgar would not just have had to have worked out the theme as an embodiment of pi before trying it out on his wife,  but also to have conceived the idea of a set of variations based on his or their 'circle of friends' before sitting down at the piano that evening, and, moreover have committed himself fully to realising it.  In other words, her encouragement would not have been as important as it has usually been thought to have been.    The idea of pieces about one's friends, of course, wasn't new.  Elgar admired Schumann and, though he never admits it, the Enigma Variations have more than a few points in common with Carnaval, written for the piano he claimed to hate, which does include alphabetical ciphers, not to mention Sphinxes.   (Does EDU go marching off against his own philistines at the end?)  The nearest I can get to accepting this, at the moment,  I'm afraid, is to admit that it's not impossible.  

What still bothers me is not so much that some form of pi may be in the theme, but by what processes, if it's there, it got there, and whether your account of the way Elgar may have drawn attention to it is viable beyond reasonable doubt, or even on balance of probabilities.    I suspect, following the idea that the solution is musical, it would not be impossible to draw up a case for the Pathetique Sonata, the slow movement of which was once popular in arrangements for violin and piano, and may well have been played by the Elgars during their courtship, or even Haydn's Imperial Hymn, let alone the Baring-Gould hymn "Now the Day is Over', which has been proposed by one scholar, or even the  theme of the slow movement of the New World symphony (Elgar had played under Dvorak), or even the theme of Parry's Symphonic Variations, which has a similar structure, though melodically it will not fit, though I can't quite see "Rule Britannia", and Elgar seems to have tried to kill the idea of "Auld Lang Syne" though not to the satisfaction of Eric Sams.   But I would still need to know not just whether they match musically but how they might have fitted into Elgar's thinking in the first place.    Having an interest in ciphers japes and riddles is a given, as is a record for being involved in some very elaborate ones.  Most of them can be related to known Elgar interests.   But do they go with an interest in pi?  Or numerical ciphers in music?  

But, for all that, this has been fascinating.   I think, for now, I'd better give it, and you, a rest, and let someone else, if they want to, take on the enigma.   But if enlightenment does strike, I'll be back, with a lot of apologies.  And in any case, the blackbirds do seem to be a good jape.   Thank you, especially for your patience, and best wishes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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dnlsanta
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RE: Edward Elgar's Enigma- Solution and Confirmation

Peter Street wrote:

But, for all that, this has been fascinating.   I think, for now, I'd better give it, and you, a rest, and let someone else, if they want to, take on the enigma.   But if enlightenment does strike, I'll be back, with a lot of apologies.  And in any case, the blackbirds do seem to be a good jape.   Thank you, especially for your patience, and best wishes. 

I have greatly enjoyed our discussions but I agree that we should give it a rest.  I am most disappointed that I was not able to convince you of the Pi theory because I value your knowledge and opinion.  I should be so lucky as to find someone else whose interest and knowledge in Elgar's enigma come close to matching yours. Good luck and best wishes to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sir Padgett
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RE: Edward Elgar's Enigma- Solution and Confirmation

 

Peter Street dismisses Ein
feste Burg
 (A Mighty Fortress) as
the unstated Principal Theme to Elgar’s ‘Enigma’ Variations based on the
mistaken presumption Elgar’s Roman Catholic faith precludes any Protestant
melody from serious consideration.  This argument
can only made at the expense of ignoring Elgar’s Lutheran and Protestant
heroes:

  1. George Frederic Handel (Lutheran)
  2. Johann Sebastian Bach (Lutheran)
  3. Felix Mendelssohn (Lutheran)
  4. Robert Schumann (Lutheran)
  5. Richard Wagner (Protestant)
  6. Henry Wadsworth
    Longfellow (Protestant)
  7. General Gordon (Protestant)

As I explain here,
Elgar composed counterpoints to famous melodies by Handel and Mendelssohn – two
prominent Lutheran composers. At the age of twelve Elgar wrote a
counterpoint to Handel’s ‘Messiah’, inserting it surreptitiously into the
orchestral score for a performance at the Three Choirs Festival.  In his early 40’s, he created a counterpoint
to Mendelssohn’s famed ‘Wedding March’ and featured it in his overture Cockaigne. Clearly Elgar had no qualms about composing
counterpoints to famous melodies by Lutheran composers, so it is astonishing
some believe he would resist composing a counterpoint to Luther’s most
famous melody.

In voicing his objection, Peter Street overlooks one glaringly obvious fact: Elgar quote’s Mendelssohn’s concert Overture ‘Calm Sea
and Prosperous Voyage’ in Variation XIII of the ‘Enigma’ Variations. Put another way, Elgar quotes the music of a
Lutheran within a work some mistakenly believe could never be based on the
music of Luther because of his Roman Catholic faith. On its face such a
claim is absurd, merely reflecting the ignorance of those who know virtually
nothing about Elgar’s character, music, or ecumenical leanings.

 

Peter Street
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RE: Edward Elgar's Enigma- Solution and Confirmation

Apologies to Mr Padgett for not having picked up his May 2011 post earlier.   But I am sorry to find he misunderstands me.   "Ein Feste Burg" is not just any Protestant tune. It is THE Protestant tune.  Even in Elgar's day, some folk at least accepted it was written by Luther himself, as were the words.   If ever there was a musical symbol of the Protestant Reformation, it was this tune - both Mendelssohn's and Meyerbeer's uses of it depend on this. I agree it now finds a place in Catholic hymnals, but that's just as beside the point as its use in the Trooping the Colour ceremony.   Mr Padgett himself finds its distinctive Protestant identity useful to deal with the Dora Penney problem.   I understand Mr Padgett now believes Enigma Variation XIII not just to be musically ecumenical but to encode the presence of God.   I await supporting, non- crytpological, evidence for this.

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