"Electronically Reprocessed Stereo" and "Duophonic" recordings

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dbennett
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Hello

I have frequently read about mono recordings which were reprocessed to
sound like stereo - sometimes called duophonic or 'electronically
reprocessed stereo' but have not had the opportunity to hear many
examples. I think they were quite common in the 70s and early 80s but they simply do not seem to make it to CD.

I hoped some members of the forum might be able to tell me what their thoughts are regarding these reprocessed recordings - I am sure in some cases they would be no improvement on the original mono (some purists would have it they were never any good at all...) but I would be interested if there were any good sounding versions out there.

I hoped to get some ideas from them and how they were reworked for
when I play about with old recordings using audio software on my
computer. Information regarding the techniques used by the engineers
at EMI or elsewhere from the 70s and 80s is thin on the ground.

Any ideas would be very welcome.
Thanks

David

NiklausVogel
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RE: "Electronically Reprocessed Stereo"

I'm a bit ignorant about the actual techniques used. "Reprocessed stereo" records used to vary from acceptable to unlistenable, and seemed to involve (to my ears) just adding reverberation and some panning of higher to lower frequencies, but I have no evidence for this.

Some of the EMI efforts (Karajan's Philharmonia Beethoven cycle, some of the Callas sets), were quite acceptable, but there were some horrible examples on the Decca Eclipse label. For example Katchen's Tchaikovsky 1st Piano Concerto is an example of a perfectly good mono recording ruined.

Maybe with today's digital technology better results can be achieved, but I'll always feel ambivalent about it, like when when they "colourised" "It's a Wonderful Life" and some of the Laurel and Hardy movies.

Sorry I can't be more helpful on the details.

dbennett
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RE: "Electronically Reprocessed Stereo"

Thank you for being so helpful!

I understand your ambivalence - what you say about the Decca Eclipse ruining what is after all a 'perfectly good mono recording' seems to reflect the perception of reprocessed stereo typically taking away from a performance as opposed to adding anything. In cases it may amount to little more than gimmickry.

Examples of better efforts are worth looking out for - I imagine some sound engineers would be rather more proficient than others. I will keep an eye out for the examples you suggest. Strangely enough it was seeing a 'stereo' Callas/De Sabata Tosca in a charity shop which prompted my interest. That copy looked like it had really been through the wars otherwise I would have given it a try.

I rather like the model of restoring old records attempted by Pristine Classical which is to not only remaster a recording so that clicks and pops caused by the medium (e.g. the lp or tape) are removed but also to then use an equaliser and add ambience to the track to overcome limitations in the actual recording of the work e.g. a recording which is too dry sounding or is poorly balanced.

I couldn't attempt any of that given my limited knowledge of using audio software that is why I am so interested in determining if there is any areas left to explore regarding reprocessing mono to stereo which may add a little excitement to old records but which is quite simple to implement. I really rather enjoy playing about with the sound of old live recordings I have collected through the years.

I don't blame you for not knowing specifics regarding what wizardry was involved - information regarding the actual techniques used seem pretty elusive!

Thanks again

All the best

David

SpiderJon
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RE: "Electronically Reprocessed Stereo"

dbennett wrote:
I don't blame you for not knowing specifics regarding what wizardry was involved - information regarding the actual techniques used seem pretty elusive!

You may already have found it, but if not there's quite a lot of information in "A Review and an Extension of Pseudo-Stereo for Multichannel Electroacoustic Compositions: Simple DIY ideas".  Whilst, as the title suggests, it's aimed at multichannel systems, it begins by reviewing "pseudo-stereo techniques used to give “volume” to a monophonic sound over conventional two-channel stereophonic systems "

And for mainly historical interest, there's also a very brief 1961 Time Magazine article -  Music: Pseudo Stereo - that was published when RCA Victor announced "the release of ''pseudo stereo"—or, as the record liners prudently euphemize, monophonic recordings with "electronic stereo reprocessing"."

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dbennett
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RE: Home

Thank you very much for sharing these links I haven't seen either of them before!

"A Review and an Extension of Pseudo-Stereo for Multichannel Electroacoustic Compositions: Simple DIY ideas" describes how:

"Most impressive and efficient pseudo-stereo is obtained with the spatial distribution of frequencies. In Fig. 1, this was obtained by sending the low frequencies to the left channel and the high frequencies to the right channel with a smooth transition"

This appears to be consistent with what NiklausVogel associates with electronically reprocessed music (and he has significantly more experience of such recordings than I based on his interesting post re the Beecham Boheme)- “some panning of higher to lower frequencies” being evident suggests that the technique described in the Review is indeed part of the technique used by record labels in the 70s and 80s. 

However, NiklausVogel also picks up on the process “adding reverberation”. This is interesting because it suggests that, as well as distributing the frequencies, part of the technique used in the past was possibly to use delays, described in the article as belonging to:
"The second class of methods, less common and less effective, [relying] on space-dependent distribution of very short time-delays (we are not speaking of echoes) and phase distortions of the monophonic signal"  

I have not had much opportunity to read through the articles yet but already a picture is forming based on NiklausVogel’s comments and the sites generously highlighted by SpiderJon which suggests that it may well be possible to discern what techniques were used back in the 70s and 80s quite closely (resembling as they do elements found in "A Review and an Extension of Pseudo-Stereo for Multichannel Electroacoustic Compositions: Simple DIY ideas".) The simplicity of the said effects are encouraging - amateurs could to try out these techniques for themselves using audio software which is available free or very cheaply.

Thank you both for your contributions!

David

tagalie
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RE: "Electronically Reprocessed Stereo"

I'd go along with most of what Niklaus said. If I wouldn't be quite so hard on the old Eclipse recordings, that's probably because I've never A-B'ed them against the originals. Results were certainly variable but the better ones reduced the boxiness of older mono and in general I found they did a better "enhancing" job than, say, Heliodor. If the Kleiber Beethoven5/Mozart 40 doesn't sound so good, the Jensen Neilsen 5 is very acceptable to my ears.

Some of those old enhanced lps have long since found their way onto cd, e.g the Sanderling Rachmaninov 2. I haven't heard the cd but with modern transfer techniques it'd be a safe bet it's an improvement over the Heliodor.

And by the way, Niklaus, totally agree with your views on colourization. Christmas Carol in colour? No thanks! 

ludwigvan1952
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"Electronically Reprocessed Stereo" and "Duophonic" recordings

This is not directly on-topic, but Pristine Classical (www.pristineclassical.com) has begun to issue some remarkably natural sounding old recordings with very subtle hall resonance added (listen to the mono Beecham/Haydn recordings with what the site calls "Ambient Stereo/XR" processing). I find them quite acceptable for those who are bothered by boxy mono sound without falsifying the original recordings. You have to make up your own mind, but they are certainly worth exploring.

33lp
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As with most things there

As with most things there were good & bad efforts. RCA did Rachmaninoff playing a couple of his concerti which is not much better or worse than other transcriptions  I have heard but then I always thought the original 78s pretty poor and not the best for their day by any means. The best I have heard is the Decca Eclipse of Piero Gamba's first Rossini overtures recording with the LSO which still sounds pretty good (brilliant performances) and where he is probably the youngest conductor ever to have recorded with a major orchestra for a major label (he was still in his teens).