Going back to CDs from downloads – because of gapless issues

36 replies [Last post]
12tonelizzie
12tonelizzie's picture
Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2010
Posts: 10

Over the last year or two I gradually made the purchasing switch from CDs to downloads.  Mp3s sound good enough for me, the iPod is now central to my listening, downloads are cheaper than CDs and cut out the chore of ripping, and I like instantaneous buying.

But a fly in the ointment has now made me go back to buying and ripping CDs: the unreliability of gapless playback.  It was the lack of gapless playback that kept me from buying an iPod for several years; but I've now found that an unacceptable number of continuous-music downloads will not play without infuriating glitches between tracks – either gaps, dips in volume, or clicks.  I've had this experience with downloads from the iTunes store, Amazon.co.uk, and now Play.com; the glitches occur in several different versions of iTunes, on several computers, on my iPod classic, and in other players such as VLC.

The non-gapless issue appears only in certain albums, and I suspect that the problems lie in the files provided by the record companies.  I first found the problem with Solti's Tannhäuser from the iTunes store; for comparison I downloaded two consecutive tracks of the same recording from Amazon, and  they had the same glitch problem.  Another non-gapless album from iTunes is Schoenberg's 5 Pieces by Kubelik (although the gaps are less distracting as they occur in stretches of 1950s tape hiss).  Most recently I downloaded from Play.com the Chandos King Priam, which plays with really nasty gaps.  Whereas iTunes have eventually given me refunds for non-gapless albums, Play.com have lived down to their appalling customer service reputation, promising refunds which are never made.

I'd be grateful to learn if anyone has had experiences similar to mine.

kev
kev's picture
Offline
Joined: 23rd Sep 2010
Posts: 203
RE: Going back to CDs...

Hello 12tone - the gap problem is explained here in the last paragraph of page 5. 

http://psn-cms-images.s3.amazonaws.com/features/guides/A%20Guide%20to%20...

I seems that you would have to use the FLAC format for seemless playback.

__________________

'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music'.  
Aldous Huxley  brainyquote.com

Andrew Everard
Andrew Everard's picture
Offline
Joined: 12th Mar 2010
Posts: 305
RE: Going back to CDs...

The alternative is to use MP3 editing software to splice together the tracks into one continuous file.

__________________

Audio Editor, Gramophone

12tonelizzie
12tonelizzie's picture
Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2010
Posts: 10
RE: Going back to CDs from downloads – because of gapless

Kev and Andrew, I'm very grateful for your replies, but it seems you've only confirmed my worst fear: customers downloading continuous-music albums from mp3 sites like iTunes, Amazon and Play.com have no way of knowing if they will play correctly or will be no better than an LP on which the needle jumps every few minutes. 

This is appalling, and I'm shocked that it's kept from buyers: it took me hours of internet searching and posting on forums before Kev pointed me to that devastating paragraph right at the bottom of the Passionato Guide.  It really is a buried fact: I informed Chandos that their King Priam does not play gaplessly (I even sent them an mp3 sample of the between-track glitches); they have not even acknowledged receipt of my message.

Neither of the solutions offered is acceptable.  As far as I know FLAC is not offered by most vendors and massively reduces the amount of music I can have on my iPod; while combining mp3 tracks into huge single files is time-consuming and destroys the convenience of tracking.

Again, I don't mean to sound ungrateful for your replies, but I'm taken aback that you seem to treat this as common knowledge.  Gramophone magazine is happily encouraging its readers to buy from the likes of iTunes, but it's simply Russian roulette as to whether an opera download will be listenable or not.

Am I really the only person bothered by this??

jdk
jdk's picture
Offline
Joined: 8th May 2010
Posts: 21
RE: Going back to CDs...

In the early days of downloads I too put off buying them, and the problems with gapless playback was one of the main reasons. Like you, I too worry about magazines such as Gramophone encouraging people to buy MP3 files from web shops without raising a big red flag on this issue. I think anyone who buys MP3s and finds they cannot play them back gaplessly should ask for their money back.

As you have discovered, the problem has not gone away, but it is possible to work around it. But you have to be willing to put in some work.

The iPod does complicate things. Some models do support gapless playback, IF the files support gapless. But as far as I know iPods don't play FLAC or OGG files (both support gapless playback natively). And if you want to play MP3s gaplessly, you need to be sure that the MP3s were created with a recent encoder that enables gapless playback. Very difficult to know, obviously, if you're buying files from web shops.

In the end, I decided the best way to guarantee gapless playback was:

- keep buying CDs.
- rip them, create FLAC files for home use, then OGG or MP3 files for portable use (can be done in one pass).

Once you use the right software (I use dbPoweramp, there are other options) you can be sure you will get gapless playback.

Alternatively, just buy FLAC files and generate your own OGG/MP3 files if you need them. But I prefer buying CDs. The cost difference is still minimal, and having the CDs offers more flexibility.

I still use the Ipod -- but I replaced the Apple firmware with Rockbox, which transforms the iPod into a very flexible, open-source music player which supports FLAC, OGG and gapless MP3. I also use the excellent and cheap Sansa Clip player, also replacing the original firmware with Rockbox. For (gapless) home use, I use Squeezebox players.

Easy? No, it takes a bit of effort. But you can maintain complete control over the process, and ensure gapless playback on all players.

If you just "go back to CDs", you lose the wonderful flexibility of having your music available everywhere (in my case via three Squeezebox players scattered around the house, and my mobile players). I just find you listen to far more music if it's on tap anywhere.

parisboy42
parisboy42's picture
Offline
Joined: 15th Jan 2010
Posts: 250
RE: Going back to CDs...

I've never encountered the problem with either iTunes or emusic.com.

__________________

A music lover currently living in the middle of nowhere. 

12tonelizzie
12tonelizzie's picture
Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2010
Posts: 10
RE: Going back to CDs...

Thanks jdk, but you're not actually proposing a "work around" for the problem with downloads – you're agreeing that I have no alternative but to abandon them. 

I find CDs tedious to buy and rip, and the price difference isn't minimal to me.  I bought the Solti Tannhäuser from iTunes because it was far cheaper than on CD.  Likewise King Priam on CD is £20 or more, whereas it's £5.95 from Play.com as a download (though sadly unlistenable due to the gapless problem).

As lossless formats are wasted on me, it's very annoying to leave the 21st century and trudge back to the old clutter of jewel cases.

 

geofstllng
geofstllng's picture
Offline
Joined: 1st Apr 2010
Posts: 9
RE: Going back to CDs...

You are certainly not the only one amazed that this isn't mentioned more often lizzie.  When I first owned an ipod even uploaded discs had clicks between tracks, making opera and symphonies impossible to listen to.  The only way around this was to splice all the tracks into one, thus, as pointed out, making it ridiculously difficult to navigate.  Later itunes software seemed to get rid of this for uploaded discs, but I was horrified when I downloaded the Solti Meistersinger (like you I was attracted by a bargain price) only to find a horrible, mutilating click on the sublime transition between the overture and Da zu dir der Heiland kam, and repeated thereafter during every change of track. 

I do still download classical music, but only now on works not really requiring a seamless flow.  Otherwise I upload discs.  If you have the discs anyway, and particularly if you have a DVD drive, it really shouldn't take that long to upload works that you want to save to a portable device.  But I agree that this is seldom pointed out anywhere when customers are encouraged buy downloads.

kev
kev's picture
Offline
Joined: 23rd Sep 2010
Posts: 203
RE: Going back to CDs...

12tone - it's possible that you have 'golden ears' but just don't know it yet.  Go on - push the boat out - give FLAC a try.

__________________

'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music'.  
Aldous Huxley  brainyquote.com

kev
kev's picture
Offline
Joined: 23rd Sep 2010
Posts: 203
RE: Going back to CDs...

jdk - may I ask which brand of headphones/ear pieces you use?

 

(Thanks for a very useful post - I'm just organising my own Christmas present which might well be a portable FLAC player).

__________________

'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music'.  
Aldous Huxley  brainyquote.com

wyjchen
wyjchen's picture
Offline
Joined: 7th Jan 2010
Posts: 14
RE: Going back to CDs...

A workround that works I learnt from a contributor to the previous Gramophone forum, whose name I forgot so I cannot acknowledge him/her.  I use it whenever gapless playback is required, although the process is quite tedious.  It involves burning the downloaded tracks to CD using Nero,  setting a 1 second (which is the minumum you can set) cross-fade between tracks.  Then re-rip that CD, combining all tracks that can logically be combined into one track (such as all tracks of an act in an opera) using a ripper that can combine tracks (e.g. iTunes, or Easy CD-DA Extractor).  You do lose a small amount between tracks, but that is hardly noticeable.  By doing this you certainly lose the tiny gaps that are so annoying.

I have tried combining tracks together using an audio editor, such as MP3DirectCut or Nero Wave Editor as suggested by some others in this discussion, but found that it doesn't always eliminate the tiny gaps.

jdk
jdk's picture
Offline
Joined: 8th May 2010
Posts: 21
RE: Going back to CDs...

kev wrote:

jdk - may I ask which brand of headphones/ear pieces you use?

(Thanks for a very useful post - I'm just organising my own Christmas present which might well be a portable FLAC player).

For non-portable listening I use Sennheiser HD650s.

For "serious" portable listening I use Etymotic ER-4Ps. ("Serious portable"? By that I mean, when I go on holiday/travel and have lots of time to listen to music, I bring the best portable kit I can).

For "everyday" portable listening, I use Sennheiser PX100s (in my opinion the best deal in inexpensive portable headphones -- currently £25 at Argos! Decent sound and comfortable too).

jdk
jdk's picture
Offline
Joined: 8th May 2010
Posts: 21
RE: Going back to CDs...

12tonelizzie wrote:

Thanks jdk, but you're not actually proposing a "work around" for the problem with downloads – you're agreeing that I have no alternative but to abandon them. 

I find CDs tedious to buy and rip, and the price difference isn't minimal to me.  I bought the Solti Tannhäuser from iTunes because it was far cheaper than on CD.  Likewise King Priam on CD is £20 or more, whereas it's £5.95 from Play.com as a download (though sadly unlistenable due to the gapless problem).

As lossless formats are wasted on me, it's very annoying to leave the 21st century and trudge back to the old clutter of jewel cases.

 

You don't have to abandon downloads. You say lossless formats are wasted on you. I don't think they are -- they solve your gapless problem at a stroke.

And if you are only willing to buy MP3s, well that's a limitation you're imposing on yourself. But even then, all may not be lost. Do some research.

For example, I know that eMusic uses LAME encoder, version 3.98.2 to create its (high quality) MP3s. This excellent encoder supports creation of MP3s with gapless playback.

Gapless is enabled by default in LAME, so unless eMusic actually "switches off" gapless -- highly unlikely -- then eMusic files should be fine. To make sure, why not email them? And eMusic has a very interesting selection of indie classical labels.

So like I say, a bit of research and you might find a way to overcome your problem. (Just remember, though, that gapless playback of MP3s also depends on the MP3 player recognising gapless settings in MP3 files -- an iPod Classic should be fine. FLAC makes things easier as it is natively gapless -- all players that can play FLAC files will play them back gaplessly. The same is true of OGG files).

jdk
jdk's picture
Offline
Joined: 8th May 2010
Posts: 21
RE: Going back to CDs...

12tonelizzie - I've done a bit of Googling, and given that you are using iTunes and an iPod Classic, you should in theory be able to play ALL MP3 files gaplessly, regardless of source.

All versions of iTunes since v7 do their own analysis of MP3 files, and add gapless data to the tags. So you should not be having the problems you suggest (at least in iTunes or on the iPod).

EDITED BY MODS - House Rules

kev
kev's picture
Offline
Joined: 23rd Sep 2010
Posts: 203
RE: Going back to CDs...

jdk - thanks for your response about the headphones. I thought that Grados might have been in your list - I had a pair that were superb for portable and mains listening but the build quality was rather fragile and I broke them.  So now I'm fishing around for replacements.

__________________

'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music'.  
Aldous Huxley  brainyquote.com

kev
kev's picture
Offline
Joined: 23rd Sep 2010
Posts: 203
RE: Going back to CDs...

jdk/12tone - yes I was thinking 'research' before committing to any new technology - check:

a) forums like this one

b) boys toys mags

c) friends and family (there's usually at least one techno-geek)

d) 'experts'

Mags like Gramophone can't be expected to reproduce all the small print available.

__________________

'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music'.  
Aldous Huxley  brainyquote.com