Gramophone Hall of Fame
Sat, Apr 14 2012, 6:05PM
#2
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
Feeling that he might be missing out on the votes Troll-one makes a final push for the top spot.
Sat, Apr 14 2012, 11:38PM
#3
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
Feeling that he might be missing out on the votes Troll-one makes a final push for the top spot.
Oh dear, yet another who has not learned the lesson that if you have nothing to say then it is best to say nothing especially, in your case, where what you say is utterly incomprehensible.
Sun, Apr 15 2012, 12:42PM
#4
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
Incoprehensible or not, there is a lot of misunderstanding, animosity, aggression and some more negative features in this forum(s). That's sad, but, what can we do, communication is not always an attainable target.
Parla
Sun, Apr 15 2012, 1:01PM
#5
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
Back to the topic in hand and some of the quibbles about who is or isn't featured- - -this is the ' Hall of Fame' and therefore distinct from perceived quality/depth/greatness. Therefore Karajan and Land Lang are more than credible 'winners' but Kubelik and Weissenberg might not be! The former have a gigantic reach,the latter less so.
i'd argue that this is an interesting topic to explore as issues which have little to do with talent can come into play. eg. stamina,good looks,clever marketing etc.
Sun, Apr 15 2012, 5:37PM
#6
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
With one bound we are in Classic FM territory. I would rather these pages were used for reviews instead of what are ultimately highly subjective lists that tend to favour still active/ very recent performers.
Sun, Apr 15 2012, 11:28PM
#7
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
Back to the topic in hand and some of the quibbles about who is or isn't featured- - -this is the ' Hall of Fame' and therefore distinct from perceived quality/depth/greatness. Therefore Karajan and Land Lang are more than credible 'winners' but Kubelik and Weissenberg might not be! The former have a gigantic reach,the latter less so.
i'd argue that this is an interesting topic to explore as issues which have little to do with talent can come into play. eg. stamina,good looks,clever marketing etc.
Absolutely, the key word is 'Fame' not excellence, genius, greatness, etc, although the 'Famous' entering the 'Hall' may possess some if not all of these attributes and more (if there is more to possess).
Personally, I am happy to leave the judgement of such issues to the Gramophone's readers.
Mon, Apr 16 2012, 12:48PM
#8
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
"Fame" in Classical Music? Popularity test?
Decades ago, when the marketing was much less powerful and recordings precious and almost numbered, these kind of artificial lists were unthinkable. The rather few well-known artists in the field have all enough "attributes" to justify their fame.
Nowadays, we can accept that "fame" is attainable even with the minimum of attributes, as long as the markets and the media can make someone a household name.
For those interested, go ahead. This is not for me, because I don't think this...exercise offers any good service to the Classical Music.
Parla
Mon, Apr 16 2012, 2:06PM
#9
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
"Fame" in Classical Music? Popularity test?
Decades ago, when the marketing was much less powerful and recordings precious and almost numbered, these kind of artificial lists were unthinkable. The rather few well-known artists in the field have all enough "attributes" to justify their fame.
Nowadays, we can accept that "fame" is attainable even with the minimum of attributes, as long as the markets and the media can make someone a household name.
For those interested, go ahead. This is not for me, because I don't think this...exercise offers any good service to the Classical Music.
Parla
So you keep on saying.
Having said that, who would be in your 'Hall of fame' not there already?
Mon, Apr 16 2012, 2:56PM
#10
RE: Gramophone is a sham.
Lang Lang seated next to Horowitz, Rubinstein, Richter, Pollini et al? (Have you heard his Beethoven 4th?) And then leave out Schnabel whose 32 Beethoven Sonata recordings may never be eclipsed?
I expect Lady Ga Ga to be added to vocalists any day now. And to leave out Bruno Walter and include Simon Rattle and others is mind boggling. This entire exercise is not worth the effort. As others have said, a popularity contest, nothing more.
Mon, Apr 16 2012, 3:35PM
#11
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
The phone lines are open for another 15 minutes to register your vote, you may be charged more from a mobile, c'mon viewers this is the dumbing down contest of the century brought to you by The Gramophone in partnership with 'Tonies Burgers' the burger you can eat everyday without getting fat, more after this message from your local station.......
Mon, Apr 16 2012, 3:51PM
#12
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
In the Hall of Fame section of the mag on Toscanini by Rob Cowan, Rob tells us that The Maestro hated excess, the cult of personality and 'humility was always at the hub of his art'.
Cross-referencing that with chapter one of Testimony, I find Shostakovitch saying this:'sadists always have fans and followers...The typical example of this is Toscanini...I hate Toscanini...What he does to music is terrible in my opinion. He chops it up into a hash and pours a disgusting sauce over it. Toscanini 'honoured' me by conducting my symphonies. I heard those records too, and they're worthless'.
He continues: 'He screams and curses the musicians and makes scenes in the most shameless manner. The poor musicians have to put up with all this nonsense or be sacked'.
'Toscanini sent me his recording of my Seventh Symphony and hearing it it made me very angry. Everything is wrong. The spirit and the character and the tempi. It's a sloppy, hack job.
I wrote him a letter expressing my views. I don't know if he ever got it; maybe he did and pretended not to-that would be completely in keeping with his vain and egotistic style'.
Page 17 concludes with 'Conductors are too often rude and conceited tyrants. And in my youth I had to fight fierce battles with them, battles for my music and my dignity'.
Two sides to every story I guess...
Mark
Mon, Apr 16 2012, 10:21PM
#13
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
I think there are more than only two sides to every story, Mark.
Very interesting discovery your cross-referencing research on Shostakovich and Toscanini, which had to make us wonder at the multiple facets and layers of reality. However, there is such an eagerness for Hall(s) of Fame of any kind, so, I guess even all the possible sides to any story won't avert the inevitable.
Parla
Wed, Apr 18 2012, 1:35PM
#14
RE: Gramophone is a sham.
This is to sell more magazines.
Of course, Reiner, Walter and Szell are far greater figures in the music world than Mr. Gardner.
And then LANG LANG! Certainly, Schnabel is in a different league, and the same must be said of Lipatti.
I like DiDonato, but seriously - to include her is a joke. Kirsten Flagstad was the greatest Wagnerian soprano of the 20th century. She's missing, as are Gobi, Hotter and Chr. Ludwig - the latter an amazing mezzo that DiDonato can hope to match some day.
Wed, Apr 18 2012, 1:46PM
#15
RE: Gramophone Hall of Fame
Mentioning von Karajan - one of the three or four most influential conductors in the history of classical music - side by side with Weissenberg - a forgotten minor artist - tells us why such contests should be avoided.
I think it would be more interesting to have a HOF of the most pompous boors on the Gramophone Forum.My top two choices for the most deserving of being the charter members would be you and your fellow thread hijacker,Troyen1.
It's a mystery. What have I done to upset you having not commented on any of your, quite frankly, uninteresting posts ("oh, so-and-so's there but what'isname isn't why is that so?" yawn, yawn)?
I just get annoyed at the pompous laying down their opinion about the dumbing down of Gramophone for Hall of Fame and then participating in it.
What group are you in?
Not that I care, as I have already stated, as you have nothing of interest, for me, in your posts.