Great Sibelius Conductors

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Adrian3
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If you had to grade the following (A, B, C...), how would you rate the following in Sibelius?

Kajanus, Bernstein, C. Davis, Vänskä, Sanderling, Karajan, Berglund, Beecham, Barbirolli, Blomstedt, Järvi, Segerstam, Maazel, Anthony Collins.


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Adrian3
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

I see I have left out Rattle. I don't know his Sibelius or that of several others listed.

My rating would be:

A++: Davis, Karajan; A+: Vänskä; A: Bernstein (NYPO,nla) ; A-: Maazel; B: Sanderling; C: Berglund.

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John Gardiner
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

The project is of course complicated by conductors who've recorded several cycles (as your comment on Bernstein's 1970s cycle suggests - the DG 1990 1st, mind, is very exciting, and if not completely Sibelius then certainly Bernstein on top form!). The Maazel remake with the Pittsburgh Symphony is a very different beast from the 1960s Vienna cycle.

On the subject of second cycles, I've greatly enjoyed the concert cycle Rattle's just completed with the Berlin Philharmonic (available via their digital concert hall).

Should Ashkenazy get a look in?

And while it's at cross-purposes with your original question, the thing that stumps me is why so many major conductors have never (to my knowledge) conducted Sibelius symphonies. Where is the Haitink cycle, where is the Abbado, where is the Chailly? How did Giulini never conduct some of the late symphonies? Svetlanov seemed to conduct everything - but no Sibelius that I know of. Of course no conductor is obliged to conduct works for the sake of it (and indeed should avoid doing this), but given that there's surely no debate about Sibelius's greatness, what's going on here, do you think?

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John Gardiner
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

p.s. Loathe to 'grade' conductors, but I must say a special word for Beecham, whose way with Sibelius was wonderful: direct, elegant, poetic. He had a glorious ear for atmosphere and sonority, and could pace music extremely well. It was his 1937 recording of the 4th Symphony which opened the work up properly for me. Often heavily-textured and oppressive in manner, Beecham's was fleet, light-filled and almost chamber-like in finish without ever shortchanging the listener when it comes to the work's tragedy.

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dubrob
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

For me Sibelius and Colin Davis are inseparable, as I fell in love with the music through his Philips records, and for years never listened to anyone else play Sibelius because I didn´t want to hear any other version. When I finally did I was impressed with Karajan, and maybe a bit of an outsider, but I also think Rozhdestvensky´s recorded on Melodiya in the 70´s are wonderful.

Adrian3
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

There certainly are/were many top conductors who passed over Sibelius - and certain nations too (he isn't much played in France or Italy). For myself, it took many years in concert hall and on disk before I fully appreciated him (the first time was hearing the 6th conducted by Rozhdestvensky). Now I definitely prefer him to Mahler, whom I find increasingly grandiloquent and 'schmalzy' - and much too long-winded.

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Andrew Mellor
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

I'm reluctant to rank too but this seems to be going in the direction of a healthy 'general' discussion.

I've been a bit sniffy about Vanska in the past but now BIS have reissued his Lahti cycle I realise that the best bits are very, very good - numbers 1, 2 and 5 particularly.

Agree that Ashkenazy should get a look in - there's the classic cycle referred to above, but also the recent Exton recordings with the Royal Stockholm PO with a particuarly good Seventh.

Other than that I'd say on live form Malkki, Storgards and Elder should get a look in - and a blast from the past in the form of Horenstein.

partsong
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

Davis generally accepted as one of the maestros on Sibelius. Karajan in my opinion a bit weighty. Am I right that Karajan never recorded Sibelius 3? He didn't do the full set? Apparently he didn't rate Sibelius 1-3.

Davis and Mazel excellent.

Askenazy Philharmonia from the 80's - well, I think superb.

I have to be honest I don't know some of the cycles you mention.

All the best

Partsong

tagalie
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

Glad to see Collins mentioned at the head of this thread. His 6th still strikes me as one of the best performances I've heard of the work. Around the same time, Gibson issued an excellent 3rd with the SNO.

All the cycles I've heard have their highs and lows. I love the Maazel 1 and 2 but not the rest. Karajan 4-7 are superb. Incidentally, I don't think he did 1 and 3 but certainly recorded 2 for EMI. Even he couldn't make much of the finale. Rozhdestvensky 7 on Melodiya is very fine. No mention of Kamu? A good 3.

John Gardiner
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

tagalie wrote:

Karajan 4-7 are superb. Incidentally, I don't think he did 1 and 3 but certainly recorded 2 for EMI. Even he couldn't make much of the finale. Rozhdestvensky 7 on Melodiya is very fine. No mention of Kamu? A good 3.

Karajan did record the 1st for EMI, in rather fierce digital sound: that said, it's a recording I must revisit, because, as you say, he was a fine Sibelian. In actual fact the Karajan 2nd was the first Sibelius symphony I ever owned and what I remember loving about it more than anything is - guess what: the finale!

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tagalie
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

Good lord, John! The finale of 2 is the only piece of Sibelius - not even Valse Triste - I can't handle. I'm watching the subjectiveness/objectiveness thread with interest, fascinated by the immense range of reactions to any given piece of music.

The whole Karajan EMI cycle was a bit of a questionmark, recording-wise. Made you wonder at the time how much of the plush BPO DGG sound was down to engineers.

eyeresist
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

At the top:

Ole Schmidt - the 5th with the RPO; doesn't quite pull off the ending but otherwise the most convincing I've heard.

Karajan - the late EMI recordings (excluding his 2 & 5, which bore me to tears); archetypal "velvet steamroller", powerful and gorgeous! (& better sound than DG)

Berglund - the early symphonies, on EMI; best 2nd (inc. finale!)

Barbirolli - playing and recording let him down at times, but very much atmos and passionate insight.

Collins - the cycle is rock-solid, admittedly in antique sound. His 1st is unique and must be heard (a brilliant contrast to the Karajan).

Maazel - 1 & 4 in Vienna are very strong, but I thought his 2 & 3 weak failures.

 

And at the bottom of the scale:

Davis - ubiquitous but not special.

Blomstedt - gutless.

Bernstein - early=anonymous, late=wrong-headed bore.

 

I don't know the rest.

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partsong
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

ref:Tagalie - I have just listened to Sibelius 3 - Okko Kamu and the Helsinki Radio Symphony Orchestra. It is on a pairing with Sibelius 1 on DG Privilege 429 - 526 - 2.

Kamu has a very appealing lightness of touch in this version, even in the melancholy second movement. The woodwind sound quite sinuous, but the brass and strings aren't warm and rich and full enough for me.

Does anybody know if he recorded the full set?

Partsong

tagalie
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

partsong wrote:

Kamu has a very appealing lightness of touch in this version, even in the melancholy second movement. The woodwind sound quite sinuous, but the brass and strings aren't warm and rich and full enough for me.

Does anybody know if he recorded the full set?

Partsong

There are rumours he is about to record the entire cycle for BIS. For DGG he had to make do with the crumbs left by Karajan - symphonies 1-3. I agree with your comments on the sound. It's better in 3 than 1, but rather lifeless all round and if you play 1 after listening, say, to Maazel's recording Kamu sounds pallid.

He was the first winner of the Karajan conducting competition and a great future was predicted. Heresay has it that he's a very talented individual but not not one for self-advertisement and uninterested in the jet-setting life of international conductors. Hence the low profile.

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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

Has anyone heard Schmidt-Isserstedt's recording of the 2nd Symphony with the NWDR Symphony Orchestra?  If so, do you know of anyone else who has the tympanist beating away in the coda of the 4th movement like he does?  I forget who started the practice of giving the tympanist such a prominent role (Koussevitzky?) but I think it had Sibelius's approval.  I don't know if S-I's recording made it to CD.  I have it on a Capitol Classics LP, which may mean it was an EMI recording.

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sock_1
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RE: Great Sibelius Conductors

This is a great thread. I love Jean Sibelius all the way.

But where is Marriss Jansons on the list? Not to be overlooked. But i must say Mazell does it for me, no question about his authority at anytime? But thank God we are all different...

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