I just can't get into Bruckner

If I am wrong, TedR will correct me. Fortunately, in your case none will.

Parla

Ah, bon! Now, we can communicate. I guess you didn't mean the social status of Bruckner's music, Lilian.

Parla

Some of the comments in this thread may have been addressing whether Bruckner was a great composer (which I think he was). But many of the entries (from several contributors) are simply related to whether Karajan was "pro-Bruckner/anti-Mahler" and Bernstein was sort of the opposite. That is all I was responding to. In simplistic terms (without going into detail about what "pro" and "anti" might mean) the statement doesn't seem to me to be wrong. 

Ted

I hated Bruckner's symphonies for many years until finally I decided to give them a chance.  I started with the 4th symphony called the "Romantic" which sounds good at least.  It does have some nice melodies at least.  I played it about three times in a week.  I began to like it and went on to the 7th.  Same thing happened,  More melodies even though they do not seem to last very long.  By this time I decided to buy the von Karajan box of Bruckner and also the Tintner.  I can say that I now do not get thrown by Bruckner'a music. Some of it is very religious in nature and can be very exciting.  I would also suggest playing them as loudly as your equipment and/or family permit.  Sometimes some music critics have stated that the Bruckner orchestra sounds like one huge organ.  Anyway, I hope you give it a try and hope we have been helpful.

I think the problem is we all discovered the String Quartet at the end of our journey through Bruckner's works, when his saturated orchestral colors already have defined our verdict of his style. Of course if you go that road, the Quintet will sound monochromous. We don't percieve this style clash when dealing with Schubert's, Mozart's or Brahms' quintets since we accept their works as part of their chamber music canon. But Bruckner's quintet is a stand-alone and the only thing (apart from an early quartet which is little more than a study work) we CAN compare it to are the symphonies, and specifically the 6th and 7th, since it originated from that period.

But let's imagine someone who doesn't know Bruckner at all and the first work he hears is the String Quintet. The thought that it's "colorless" or even "sketchy" wouldn't enter his mind. Of course there are certain passages where Bruckner calls for an orchestral sound that his five players can't possibly deliver (like the codas of the first and 4th movements), but the overall majority of the music is concieved in a perfectly idiomatic chamber music style. And if we're to condemn orchestral effects in chamber music, we can't ignore that Brahms, for instance, was a much bigger "offender" in this field, specially in his earlier works, where more than one planned symphony ended up as a chamber music piece. See the first piano quartet, which sounds much more like it's written with a full orchestra in mind than Bruckner's quintet (it was orchestrated by Schönberg for that very reason).

Curious, all these transcriptions of chamber works for orchestra.  I suppose it started with Schönberg and his own Verklärte Nacht and then Brahms' Piano Quartet. Then, inauthentic Korngold Sextet, Weingartner's Beethoven Quartets and Grosse Fuge arrangements etc. Perhaps the proliferation arises from the decline in domestic playing of chamber music.  To my ears the originals always sound preferable, but I know many prefer the orchestral version of Verklärte Nacht: at least that is authentic Schönberg. 

Schönberg's arrangement of the Brahms has sometimes been justified on the grounds that Brahms was exploring material for a first symphony he was not yet ready to compose. Be that as it may, however symphonic some of the ideas are, the scoring for piano quartet seems to me as close to perfection as one could ever hope to hear.  My grandfather had the 78s with Serkin and the Busch Quartet - never to be forgotten! Schönberg's superb 'version' sounds to me like - er, Schönberg. 

I've never heard the Bruckner Quintet arranged for full strings, but can't imagine I'd find it an improvement.

Chris

For all it's worth (at least for you, 50m), the String Quintet exists in at least 10 available recordings and the String Quartet in about half of them. I own the following, which are all very safe bets:

1. Prazak Quartet and Jan Talich on Praga.

2. Raphael Ensemble on Hyperion (now on Helios).

3. Amadeus Quartet on DG

4. Brandis Quartet on Nimbus (with Brahms op111!).

5. Leipziger Str. Qu. on MDG

6. Fina Arts Str. Qu. on Naxos

The last two include the String Quartet too. The latter has been recorded on SACD by Quintone along with the neglected one by Rott.

Parla