I just can't get into Bruckner

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sebastian_flyte
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Howdy-- I'm a fan of most classical music, own a couple hundred CDs and multiple versions of big stuff like LvB's symphonies. I can appreciate pretty much all composers, EXCEPT BRUCKNER. Not only can I not get into his symphonies, I can't understand why anyone would even listen to him, let alone proclaim him a musical genius.

That said, I didn't used to like beer or stinky cheese, either, and now I can't get enough of those. 

Brucknerites, what am I missing??? I have a Karajan Bruckner box. What's the best symphony to start with, and do you have any tips on approaching/appreciating it?

Micos69
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

It's said that the main problem with Bruckner is the sheer length of his symphonies, yet Mahler's (currently a more highly esteemed composer) are longer.  Maybe it is the slow pace of his musical thought, especially at the start of a symphony (his 4th is a good example).  Yet Elgar's 1st Symphony  begins at the same measured speed, without losing the listener's attention. Maybe he just has less to say than either of these two composers??

A case could be made for the last three symphonies, especially the unfinished 9th, which has long been a personal favourite.  But more and more I find myself turning to his motets to understand and appreciate Bruckner.

Bagis
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

I suggest you start with symphony 6.It is a little lighter than most of the others,it is a little bit "Bruckner light", but still fantastic music.The second slow movement is breathtakingly beautiful.One of Bruckners most serene moments.

tagalie
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

I have to be in a sort of zen frame of mind to listen to Bruckner. After being blown away the first time I heard him - #9 conducted by Jochum on Heliodor - I went right off him and didn't listen to anything of his for years. Nowadays I can take either of the two cycles I own (Tintner and Jochum's first) in small doses. I've read the Simpson analyses and others to try to find out what it is I'm missing but, as I say, I think it's a matter of being in that sedate, uruffled, living-the-moment kind of mood. And if he's being done by anybody but Jochum or Tintner he bores the daylights out of me.

So my suggestion, Sebastian, would be to try other conductors.

There's something slightly similar about listening to Wagner, for me. Except that once I've adjusted to his time frames - which usually takes the best part of one act if I've heard him for a while - I thoroughly enjoy him.

parisboy42
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

I have to admit, I too, find it difficult to listen to Bruckner. Other than the 4th, 6th, and 9th, I find it tough going. Can it be that a lot of patience is required to listen to these symphonies? Sometimes, the orchestra sounds like nothing but a vast organ. I know that Bruckner was an organist so his worked is obviously informed by that instrument. I have the complete Tintner set on Naxos and the complete Jochum set on DG. I have not yet made a comparison betweent these sets. I own other individual performances with conductors such as Vanska, Salonen, Klemplerer, etc.

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superhorn
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

It's true; some people just find Bruckner's music a hard nut to crack . Not me. Exactly 40 years ago when I was just a teenager,I bought the Seraphim LP of the 9th symphony with Carl Schuricht conducting the Vienna Philharmonic, and I was enthralled.
I went on to listen to all the others and the different versions of them and have been a confirmed Bruckerian ever since. The first symphony, which is no longer than the Brahms 1st, contains the basic elements of the Bruckner style but is mercifully short, and the 4th and 7th are probably the most approachable of the others.
You have to concentrate hard and let the music flow over you. Please keep trying, and I hope Bruckner's music will finally "click" with you.
You should also try some of Bruckner's great choral works, such as the three masses (I recommend Jochum on DG in an inexpensive 2 for i set, or the great Te Deum,or the 150th Psalm, or the string quintet,or the motets.

geofstllng
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

As the gentlest possible introduction, listen to the Symphony in F Minor, the so-called Study Symphony, conducted by Inbal.  It doesn't sound far removed from Schubert or Mendelssohn.  If you like that, next move to the 00 'Nullte' Symphony under Haitink.  These two symphonies are untypical, but they may remove your aversion and make you want to explore the later works.

Alternatively, try jumping in at the deep end with Symphony # 9 under Reggie Goodall.  In my opinion it's his very best, though last, symphony and if it doesn't draw you in after a few plays Bruckner may not be for you. 

eyeresist
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

I'd say, persist with 4 (his "poppiest") and 9 (his greatest). B undoubtedly has his longeurs, and these two symphonies avoid them best. Try a variety of performances and see which suits you; as ever, tastes vary widely in these matters (FWIW, I like Karajan in this work, but he's better outside the boxset).

If you like choral music, you should like B's powerful (and relatively short) Te Deum.

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cjdeldotto
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

I have the Karajan cycle, too, but over the years I've turned to Georg Tintner's recordings on Naxos more and more.  Whether it's the performances or the audio quality (or both), I think they have an immediacy that makes Bruckner's music more compelling, accessible, and pleasurable.

matthewpiano
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

I was turned on to Bruckner by a live recording of Gunter Wand conducting the 4th Symphony on RCA.  What Wand does rather better than Karajan is make sense of the structure of the music so that there is a feeling of overall shape and proportion.

hcollier
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

I was hooked by Bruckner at the age of around 15 when I attended a concert in Paris conducted by Carl Schuricht. It was Easter, so we had the Good Friday music from Parsifal .. plus the adagio from Bruckner's 7th symphony. My love of both Wagner and Bruckner probably dates from that one concert. It's a pity that nowadays people are denied the opportunity to get to know composers via bits of music; it has to be all Tristan & Isolde, or all the Bruckner symphonies. Difficult to appreciate and digest if it's music to which you are new.

Immediately after the Paris concert I invested in Jascha Horenstein conducting Bruckner's 9th symphony (I still have the mono LP). For the greatest Bruckner ever, however, I recommend Furtwängler's blazing live 1944 Berlin performance (in surprisingly good sound).

 

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monzo11
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

You need a friend!  I had the same problem until friend, whose opinion I respect, told me how she was enjoying Bruckner.  Her description was that only Bruckner lifts the listener to the top of a mountain, and then – unlike Brahms and Shostakovich – Bruckner lets the listener figure out which direction he/she should proceed.  The revelation shocked me.  And so, I forced myself to listen to Bruckner (he's an acquired taste like your stinky cheese or tofu), and, yes, this composer requires repeated and dedicated exposure.  It worked – and now I am truly moved by his work.  My favorite symphonies are #2, #3, #8 and #9.  #7 is terribly repetitious in my view.  Nevertheless, I would start with #4 – the lean EMI Karajan rendition.  Good luck and good listening.  Jim

dholling
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I just can't help not joining in this conversion!

As for me, my initial acquaintance with Bruckner was with his Second Symphony. Such a sublime work I thought to myself. Then I came across his 3rd & 4th soon thereafter (the latter done by Sinopoli & Chicago if memory serves me correctly). After hearing a live performance of the Ninth with Giulini and the Vienna Philharmonic (Nov. 1988), my admiration towards Bruckner solidified. But what shook me to the core was Klaus Tennstedt's live performance of the 8th Symphony with the Philadelphia Orchestra (Spring-1989 - he later performed the work with the Minnesota Orchestra). I was bowed over by its power and magnitude in expression. Since that day, I view Bruckner as a genius and perhaps as much of a revolutionary as was Wagner. That view never withered. And the next year (1990), when I listened to a live broadcast of Gunther Wand's performance of the 5th with the Chicago Symphony, the rest was history.   

I sincerely yet passionately recommend that you start with the 8th Symphony (Wand and the Berlin Phil-RCA, Karajan and the Vienna Phil-DG, or Barenboim and the Chicago Symphony-DG in LP). The Wand recording is the best in the catelogue. Then try the 9th (with either Giulini & the Vienna Phil. or Barenboim with the Berlin PO). Then try the 5th (Jochum with the Concertgebouw Orchestra-last recording issued by Tahra). Then try the 4th or the 7th (the 4th done by Bohm and the Vienna PO, or Jochum with the Berlin/the 7th perf. by Karajan and the Vienna PO). And just take it from there. But go slowly and don't be daunted by this. I guarantee the discovery and the experience in listening to and understanding Bruckner are immensely rewarding and even life-altering.

One final thought. On the 3rd Symphony, do try the original 1873 version with Ms. Simone Young perf. with the Hamburg PO. The listening experience is too immensely rewarding to be overlooked.

Happy hunting!

Dave Hollingsworth

dholling1@verizon.net

 

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wilsim3
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

After years of listening to Bruckner symphonies performed by top-flight international orchestras under Important Conductors, I have given up trying to find any artistic and emotional meaning in these works.

What is there in these works that might attract the listener, as really great or even good music does? Bruckner's music uses elements that allow it to sound like real music at times. Clearly, the composer was well schooled in the formalities of composition and orchestration. However, he lacked any spark of
inspiration or artistry that could communicate emotion or meaning to a
listener.  Bruckner offers no melody of the slightest interest. He delivers only chains of notes that have the formal characteristics of melodies but have nothing of the poignancy, pungency, ingenuity or beauty that meaningful melodies contain. His symphonies tell no story and contain no drama. There are many climaxes, all empty and signifying nothing. They have no honest emotion. They suggest that the composer himself had no emotion other than perhaps a sincere love for the music of truly great composers and, it seems, religion. In the final analysis, they fail to move the listener.

Go ahead! Talk me down! Tell me what I'm missing and where in this vast catalogue of music there is anything that might give me a reason to sit through any of it anymore.

janeeliotgardiner
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

Sebastian,

Do try and perservere: there is almost no (musical) pleasure like Bruckner. I have struggled with many composers over the years, but Bruckner came quite easily. To me, he is very close in spirit and (often, but not always) melodic inspirtation to Schubert. If you like the 8th or 9th symphonies of Schubert, you are almost certainly going to love Bruckner because what Bruckner did was a natural extension of the Schubertian symphonic enterprise. (Unlike, say, Mahler, which is something else altogether). The mood tends to remain fairly stable during each movement and is often devotional, contemplative or spiritual in nature. The music is tonal, but key-shifts are frequent; orchestration is often organised into contrasting blocks of colour: lower strings, followed by brass chorale, followed by woodwind.....and so on. 

The best place to start is probably with the slow movements of the 4th or the 7th, both of which are extremely lyrical. The fourth feels a little hesitant at first, but soon blossoms in a lovely melody in the cello, then builds to a classic Brucknerian climax (7 minutes in, roughly). Then we revert to the faltering rhythms and cello melody before a thundering climax at the end. It isn't a long piece by Bruckner standards - sixteen minutes or so.  

Bruckner 1, 2 and 3 are usually considered to be pre-mature Bruckner and not entirely characteristic (lots of conductors miss them out), so the corpus really starts at 4 and ends at 9 - 6 symphonies altogether. 8 and 9 are out of this world - massive, profound, mysterious. But they are also quite hard to  enjoy first time roud because they are less obviously melodic and the harmonic progressions, the ratcheting and release of tension, can seem a bit relentless. Individual movements are sometimes very long - up to 30 minutes or so.

So start with 4, then 7. Once you like even one movement, you'll find it quite easy to get the rest. Don't listen to those who put Bruckner down: just look at the sheer number of world class conductors who are drawn to Bruckner these days (Abbado, Harnoncourt etc). Karajan is a decent choice, but he tends to emphasise the monumental aspects of the work. You might find it easier to enjoy a "lighter", leaner take on 4 - Osmo Vanska with the Minnesota Orchestra, for instance, or Harnoncourt.

Anand Ramachandran
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RE: I just can't get into Bruckner

Listen to Gunter Wand. His sense of  architecture and pacing is unerring. There is a box of his recordings with the Berlin Philharmonic. Start with either the 4th or the 7th. If you persist, you will find structure underneath what on a superficial listening sounds wayward. You will find him less episodic than Mahler. regards Anand