Is moderation a virtue in Classical Music?

I'm definitely '..........'

Parla, what worries me here is what seems like circularity of argument. At the beginning of this thread you asked:

"How do we have to perceive some of the gargantuan works in Classical Music, which, at the same time, are considered as "monumental" ones (e.g. Wagner's works, Bruckner and Mahler's Symphonies, Beethoven's Late String Quartets, Schubert's Late Piano Sonatas and String Quartets and so on)? Is there always "moderation" (measure) in them or they constitute the proof of the power of excessive and unlimited passion, vision, talent and some more..?"

In you most recent post you then argue:

"In the masterpieces of Classical Music, we may detect a sense of overall proportion and measure, while, on various aspects of the actual composition, we may identify a good sense of excess."

The problem is this. If we include in the term 'masterpiece' the definition that any 'excess' has been properly integrated, we seem to have closed any discussion as to whether " there [is] always "moderation" (measure) in them or they constitute the proof of the power of excessive and unlimited passion, vision, talent and some more."

Or to put it another way, who shall be the arbiter as to whether an 'excess' has been incorporated in a balanced way? We are dangerously close to the unanswerable 'good' vs. 'bad' argument.

It's for this reason, amongst others, that I argued that a little excess, properly integrated or not, may be no bad thing from time to time...... and not just in music!

Chris

Parla, I don't think we really disagree so much.

You wrote:

"I trace that you accept the "power" of moderation versus the "vice" of the excess, when you use carefully the wording "a little excess" and "from time to time". I read it as the moderation (measure) is the rule, excess the exception. (Exception justifies the rule!)"

Agreed. But then you ask:

"Who is going to be the "arbiter" to say whether "a little excess" (properly integrated or not) may be or may be not "a bad thing" on this occasion or the other?"

Here perhaps we differ. My answer would be: 'Each listener for him- or herself!

As others have suggested, each composer of note breaks the rules from time to time.  Each of us decides what is too much excess (and the answer may  vary from day to day). Same applies for conductors etc.

I'm with Hans Sachs:

Gesteht, ich kann die Regeln gut,

 Indeed I know the rules well,

Und dass die Zunft die Regeln bewahr'

And that our guild should keep them

Bemüh' ich mich selbst schon manches Jahr

I've struggled many a year.

Doch einmal im Jahre fänd ich's weise,

Yet once a year I've found it wise

Dass man die Regeln selbst probier'

To test the rules themselves,

Ob in der Gewohnheit trägem G'leise

Lest in the idle rut of familiarity

Ihr Kraft und Leben nicht sehr verlier'!

Their force and vigour be lost.

Und ob ihr der Natur noch seid auf rechter Spur,

Whether you are still on nature's track,

Der sagt euch nur,

He alone can tell you,

Wer nichts weiss von der Tabulatur.

Who knows nothing of the Tabulature. [Table of rules]

Chris