Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
Sat, Oct 29 2011, 8:53PM
I have always had two ways of listening; one is just to pop a CD in and listen, while the other has been to try and put together 'personal concerts'. The later came out of first making cassette tapes for my walkman and today it is playlists for my ipod.
I was reminded of this by the new Liszt double CD on DG from Pierre-Laurent Aimard, which I think is a recording of his recent recital. I have to admit I really live these types of recordings, where the artist decides to present a mixed programme that allows juxtapositions and contrasts between composers and their works. Chailly's current Beethoven cycle (on the road at least) has five works by contemporary composers mixed with Beethoven - all new commissions.
So, in a spirit of debate and discussions exclusively about music, I would like to propose a challenge to any interested; what concert program would you divise for a named particular work. Each week we will name one work that is essential to the program. You mission, should you choose to accept, is to choose the other works to go with it, in such a way that it would be a program you would travel 2 hours to hear - that for me is the definition of an interesting concert!
It will be more interesting if you can give some brief explanation for your choice of works, perhaps even the order they would be played. There are of course no right answers!
To get us started here is the first challenge:
build a concert program around the Schubert 'Unifinished' Symphony.
Sat, Oct 29 2011, 11:58PM
#2
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
Surely there can only be one obvious work and that is Bruckner's 9th perhaps with the only finished part of Mahler's 10 in between.
Too heavy an evening?
Sun, Oct 30 2011, 7:17AM
#3
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
This is a lovely idea for a thread. I like the ideas so far and am looking forward to more.
As I am in a period of enforced rest at the moment (the best excuse ever for long listening sessions) it's particularly apt for me.
As I can select and cue up music from the NAS hard-drive via the iPad to the DS player without leaving my listening/"resting" position, thinking ahead of a "programme" might be more satisfying than the present almost random selecting. I'll give it a go.
Thanks naupilus!
Vic.
Sun, Oct 30 2011, 7:36AM
#4
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
Parla
You are right that it may be necessary to clarify what we difine as a 'concert'. In order to make this as flexible as possible we shall say anything goes - it is a completely personal choice what you put on the program. Fortunately in the confines of this thread (and my ipod) there are no logistical issues :-)
Now, I am going to take your wonderful suggestions, trawl though my playlist and see if I can create you suggestions for myself to listen over the next few days.
I must admit I have also set myself the challenge and now am thinking very hard.
Sun, Oct 30 2011, 12:06PM
#5
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
I'm really looking forward to following this thread and perhaps seeing the music I listen to in new ways, particularly in the light of juxtapositions one's perhaps not thought of before. Like Vic, I have usually tended to listen in a comparatively random and unprogrammed way, at least to orchestral and chamber music. My main interest being opera, often an evening's devoted to comparing multiple versions of an aria or even an act or two and my comparatively recent foray into lossless streaming has made this so much more convenient.
The opportunity to learn new works and maybe finding a way in to various pieces and composers that have thus far proved elusive, is also an enticing prospect. To that end, I might investigate Spotify to access those works not immediately to hand. (I know almost nothing about Spotify, but have seen it mentioned repeatedly in various threads on the forum)
Thank you Naupilus.
JKH
Sun, Oct 30 2011, 5:08PM
#6
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
To give you more food for thought, Naupilus, listening on the basis of the tonality, you have also more room to move than simply to stick to the exact same tonality. You may explore, during the "programme", works in the major tonic (in the "Unfinished" case, the B major, an even more difficult and rare tonality) or the relative major (D major, a very common straightforward tonality).
Therefore, you may include in your programme the most important work in B major, namely Brahms' Piano Trio op. 8 and the very beautiful Haydn's String Quartet op. 55, no.3. For a huge juxtaposition, you may jump into 20th century Barber's one and only String Quartet in B major, op. 11.
As for the D major works, there are plenty by any single composer of the period of Schubert, before and after. So, I don't feel I have to recommend some in particular.
Finally, for the b minor works, I forgot to mention the glorious Adagio for Piano, K. 540, of Mozart, a rare but magnificent piece of the great master. There are some great recordings; I prefer the one with C. Zacharias on MDG.
Good "hunting" and eventual listening.
Parla
Sun, Oct 30 2011, 8:24PM
#7
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
Surely there can only be one obvious work and that is Bruckner's 9th perhaps with the only finished part of Mahler's 10 in between.
Too heavy an evening?
I seem to recall (or it may just be the voices in my head) that I've been to a Schubert Unfinished/Bruckner 9 evening. A Prom some years ago, perhaps? I think that would be enough for my evening, and might postpone the Mahler until the following night.
Incidentally, we're off in February to hear (for certainly the third time I can recall) Bruckner's 9th with the Te Deum performed as the last movement, apparently an arrangement he himself sanctioned
JKH
Sun, Oct 30 2011, 9:57PM
#8
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
I'm not into Schubert so wouldn't drive two hours to hear him unless followed by say Syzmanowski violin concerto No.1 and then perhaps Strauss's Four Last Songs with, how about, Jessye Norman?
Big evening Romantic music over 100 yrs.
Sun, Oct 30 2011, 11:44PM
#9
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
Here are actual concerts: July 30, 1964 at the RAH (Proms concert of course). Sir Adrian Boult conducted the New Philharmonia as follows:
1) Schubert Symphony #8
2) Brahms PC #2
3) Bizet Jeux d'enfants
4) Ravel Daphnis & Chloe Suite #2.
Also October 14, 1939: Arturo Toscanini & the NBC Symphony:
1) Schubert Symphony #8
2) Strauss Don Juan
3) Haydn Sinfonia Concertante for Violin, Cello, Oboe & Basoon
4) Bach:Respighi Passacaglia & Fugue in C Minor
Also January 24, 1942: AT & the NBC
1)Mendelssohn A Midsummer Night's Dream Overture
2) Schubert Symphony #8
3) Barber Essay No. 1
4) Wagner Parsifal: Prelude & GF Spell
Also March 5, 1949: AT & the NBC
1) Rossini: La Scala di seta Overture
2) Schubert Symphony #8
3) Franck Les eolides
4) Strauss: Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks
Also March 11, 1950: AT & the NBC
1) Mozart Symphony #40
2) Schubert Symphony #8
3) Smetana the Moldau
Also May, 2009: Michael Tilson Thomas and the San Francisco Symphony
1) Schubert Rosamunde Overture
2) Berg Seven Early Songs
3) Schubert Symphony #8
4) Berg Three Pieces for Orchestra
Mon, Oct 31 2011, 12:25AM
#10
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
May, 2009: Michael Tilson Thomas and the San Francisco Symphony 1) Schubert Rosamunde Overture 2) Berg Seven Early Songs 3) Schubert Symphony #8 4) Berg Three Pieces for Orchestra[/quote]
This is a concert that makes sense to me.
Mon, Oct 31 2011, 6:20PM
#11
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
A whole concert in B flat. You'd never be able to get to it. There'd be traffic gridlock for a radius of 40 miles.
I like the look of those AT concerts. Nothing wrong with the Schubert/Bruckner 9/Mahler 10 suggestion either. Elgar 3 as an encore.
Tue, Nov 1 2011, 12:43AM
#12
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
I think I might find three unfinished symphonies in a row too much to bear in one sitting, even with an interval!
My first attempt at a program (which I have been trying out today) is based upon a loose set of connections:
Wagner: Prelude to Tristan und Isolde (first performed the same year as Schubert's Unfinished Symphony, 1865)
Schubert/Liszt: Wanderer Fantasy (version for piano and orchestra) - Liszt loved Schubert and played his works often in concert. A rare treat for the concert hall.
Interval
Berio: Rendering (3 movements based on Schubert's unfinished symphony D936a) - Another hommage from a great composer to Schubert, where Schubert's original music is bound together with music by Berio. I really love this piece, particularly the start of the third movement where Schubert skips along and Berio joins in the fun, slightly off kilter.
Schubert: Unfinished Symphony
(Encore if required - Entr'acte from Schubert's Rosamunde - some think this is based upon abandoned sketches for the last movement of the symphony).
I still cannot decide if it would be better to place Berio second and Liszt after the break... decisions.
Unfortunately I suspect I may be the only person who would travel 2 hours to hear this program. Fortunately it is available on my ipod.
Tue, Nov 1 2011, 9:48AM
#13
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
Tagalie, the tonality is in b minor,not B flat (major), and it's absolutely possible. I offered my suggestions, in different ways, with alternatives.
Naupilus, your suggesting programme in the "anything goes" motto may work for you and others. However, you have to consider the following:
a) The orchestration of the "Unfinished" is the regular classic period one. The Wagner, Berio and Liszt are heavier (Romantic) and quite different (Berio). So, if you wish to go for it, you have to start with the "Unfinished" and finish with Wagner, since it's by far the most coherent and "full" piece(s) in the programme.
b) The relation of Schubert with Wagner is quite remote, so the fact of the first performance date is not that adequate.
c) Rosamunde couldn't be the Finale of the "Unfinished", since it's in the straightforward C major, a key far away from b minor, which is the key of the "Unfinished".
However, if "anything goes" and it seems you have your argumentation for that, you may give a go. I wouldn't. Try, however, to listen on the basis of the tonality of the works. It's revealing...
Parla
Tue, Nov 1 2011, 5:11PM
#14
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
Tagalie, the tonality is in b minor,not B flat (major
My apologies. That changes everything.
Tue, Nov 1 2011, 8:49PM
#15
RE: Juxtapositions: Concert programming...what goes with?
Dear Parla
Thanks for your comments. I suspect that if we looked at each others book shelves we would find them very different in terms of organisation! In the last ten years brain research has clearly show that we all map our minds differently and that this in turns affects how we learn. The merits of a program based upon tonality are clear for all to see but I prefer the tangential...
I take your point regarding the sequence, but I intentionally chose to put the Unfinished last because I wanted the concert to end on a question mark and also emphasise the work itself. This symphony always ends up at the start of a program and again that seems conventional, which is something I choose to avoid where possible.
I did try to base a program on the year 1865 in its entirety, but have failed so far. I can just imagine a concertgoer skipping from the newly unearthed 'Unfinished' Symphony by the forgotten Schubert and then a few nights later going to hear Tristan for the first time. The experience would undoubtedly have been wonderful and hopefully made Hanslick uncomfortable in the extreme. 1865 was also the year of the premiere of Dvorak's first symphony, so it is possible to create a program of Tristan (Prelude and Liebstod), Schubert and then Dvorak. Don't forget we have no problem with hiring extra players for the night and having different set ups coming on and off stage.
This is a difficult task and a very personal one, but I will tell you how, after so many years of listening experience, I cope with my "concert programming". I don't like juxtapositions, unless there is enough evidence of relationship of the works concerned.
However, before we go further, we have to agree that we talk about a free programming of any form of classical music (instrumental, chamber, orchestral, vocal and even opera, if applicable) or only symphonic (like in the Concert Hall).
If it is the latter, regarding the "Unfinished" of Schubert, for me, this is my proposal: a) "Unfinished", b) Dvorak's Cello Concerto and c) Tchaikovsky's 6th (Pathetique). The connecting thread is the rare tonality (b minor); rare indeed for Schubert, but also for most of the composers. These three works constitute the greatest symphonic works in the field in b minor (there is of course Elgar's Violin Concerto and Shostakovich's Sixth from the most well known). I believe, like quite a few musicians, that it's very interesting, even intriguing, to compare different works in the same tonality. In this case, we have also a juxtaposition of Classical and Romantic compositions.
If it's the former, then, we cannot have an all Schubert round, since the other well known work of Schubert in b minor is the impressive Rondo for Violin and Piano. However, with enough juxtaposition, we may have the following programme:
a) Instrumental : Bach's Prelude and Fugue from the 1st Book of the Well-Tempered Clavier.
b) Chamber : 1) Rondo for Violin and Piano D. 895 of Schubert and 2) Haydn's String Quartet op. 33, 1.
c) Orchestral: 1) Mendelssohn's String Symphony No. X and 2) Schubert's "Unfinished". (If you wish to add a Concerto as well, to make a very generous programme, you may add Paganini's Violin Concerto Nr. 2).
Of course, there are many other ways to make a programme, but, as for me, I like to start with the tonality, which reveals quite a few things of how the composer(s) concerned "move" within...
Good listening,
Parla