Listening Project

Chris, I agree that the C#m does have a darker sound. Probably this is caused by the fact that notes such as C, D and G - prominent in C minor music - feature as open strings giving the music a brighter "feel". The equivalent notes in C#m would all need to be stopped.

The last movement is probably the one that Kraus changed the least when revising the work. He adds a couple of bars of loud music to the start (C#m starts quietly), extends the development and cuts the second half repeat, but otherwise it is the same.

Would anyone like to comment on the form of the first movement?

The Symphony's First Movement is bright in thematic material and brilliant counterpoint but falls short in the crucial issue of the thematic development, the orchestration and the innovative character of the work.

Although the c minor VB142 might be the "best" of his surviving Symphonies, still, it cannot attain the standards of reference of the Classical era Masters.

The c sharp minor is an extremely difficult key for Symphonic writing due to its four critical sharps in C, D, F and G, which make the orchestration cumbersome and, accordingly, difficult to manage the whole structure of the movement. It is not surprising that there are very few Symphonies in this key with the most notable Mahler's 5th, whose, however, only the First movement is actually written in that key (it finishes in D major!). However, the best movement in the Symphonic literature, composed in c sharp minor, is Bruckner's monumental slow movement of his glorious Seventh Symphony (written in the relative major: E major), of course worked out with enough ingenious modulations along the way.

Parla

Thanks, chaps.

It is certainly a fascinating and unorthodox movement. The C#m version was pretty clear: slow intro (with germs of the first "group"); first subject in C#m; second group (new theme) in E major; Development (of 2nd theme); brief recap (effectively a coda) of 1st theme.

But in the C minor revision Kraus has thrown a spanner in the works. In fact he has thrown two. First he completely scraps the second subject and simply develops his first subject in the new key (E flat); then, just when we expect  the development to be starting (at 5:46), he finally introduces a brand new theme! And, no, it is not the old second subject from the first version.

This theme is stated twice before further development of the first subject (starting in E flat). Now begins what seems to be a recapitulation - but not from the very start of the Allegro but from a bit further in (6:33). The second group we expect to reappear in C major but instead it comes along in B flat! As before this section further develops the first subject but instead of leading us again to the new theme (expected in C major) we get a second recapitulation - this time starting from the very start of the allegro (8:15). This does not get far before suddenly stopping. Now the second theme does appear - but in C minor!!! This becomes major for return of the first subject but soon we are back in the minor mode for the fiercely tragic ending.

I think looking at that - and also with the ideas of Brumas and Chris about the reoccurance of the germs from the slow intro - that it can be argued that the movement is pretty convincingly through-composed. There is no great variety of key like you will find in more famous symphonies from the era (a-hem) but by eliminating the usual, orthodox "sections" (or blurring the points where they meet) he has created something unusual but brilliant.

Good to see Kraus getting the praise he deserves. Apparently Haydn said that he knew only two composers of genius: one was Mozart and the other was Kraus. He went on to say: “The symphony he wrote here in Vienna especially for me (either the C minor or the D major) will be regarded as a masterpiece for centuries to come. Believe me, there are few people who can compose something like that.”

Praise indeed!

This thread has inspired me to see what else of Kraus's music is available (I know the 12 extant symphonies pretty well thanks to the Naxos and Capriccio cycles) and I have found a wonderful violin concerto, a disc of recently discovered viola concertos (one a double with cello), a series of fascinating string quartets (plus a flute quintet), a brilliant disc of piano music with Ronald Brautigam, some choral music and even a three hour opera (a radio broadcast) on the exploits of Aeneas in Carthage. This last I have not yet had time to listen to but it is said to be his masterpiece. A Naxos CD of instrumental highlights is also available.

So finally the "Swedish Mozart" is getting his due.

J.M. Kraus: the "Swedish Mozart"? A German by birth who lived in Sweden at the exact period of Mozart! Otherwise...there is very little to compare. As for Haydn's comment. Well, why he had to be impolite to someone who "honoured" him?

Having said that, I don't mean Kraus is trash, but let's not overrate him. He could write some nice themes, he had some good ideas, but, in the crucial point of the development of his thematic material, the form and structure, he almost failed. That's why he cannot be remembered as a great composer. However, for those who might wish to explore whatever is still available, in one or the other way, here we are:

- For his quite uneven, but with some brilliant moments, Piano Music: a) one CD on Naxos with modern Piano and three with Fortepiano: on BIS (with Brautigam), on Stradivarius and on Musicaphon (SACD). The latter is the best overall.

- For his Chamber Music:

a) Violin Sonatas: the complete set on Naxos. Various along with Piano Trio and some Piano Music on a double CD of Fine Line (a subsidiary of Challenge). Moderate works for easy listening.

b) Piano Trio: In the above CD and another one on Musica Sveciae with a Flute Quintet and a String Quartet. Moderation is a virtue, after all.

c) The String Quartets: In three versions, one on Carus (the best overall), one on Musica Sveciae and a complete set on Cavalli (in two Volumes). Bright works, but far from any comparison with the best of Mozart and Haydn.

- Flute Quintets: one on Accent along with two String Quartets, one on the above disc of Musica Sveciae and on Novalis along with some by Boccherini.

- The Concertos: a) a Violin Concerto exist on Naxos and a better recording on Orfeo. b) the Viola Concertos have very recently "rediscovered" and recorded, in a very fine CD of Ondine, with the new Viola star D.A. Carpenter. Brilliant recording and performance of nice and entertaining works.

- Songs: One CD on Naxos, for those who can "afford" them.

- Choral Music: a) an interesting one on Musica Sveciae with the Funeral Music for Gustav the Third (intriguing repertory). b) His Requiem and Miserere on Carus (some substantive music there). c) an average oratorio "Der Tod Jesu" on Carus too.

- Vocal music: a brilliantly recorded SACD, on Phoenix, with some exciting Cantatas, enhanced by the "hot" voice and very warm performance of S. Kermes.

- Incidental music: an almost impressive recording of Phoenix of the stage work "Amphitryon".

- Opera: Apart from the "Aeneas...", his more impressive one is the old recording of Proserpin, on Musica Sveciae. For all its exciting music, it failed to impress even a small audience. It went to oblivion, obviously. Finally, there used to be a funny one, on Virgin, called Soliman II, "a Gustavian Turkish Opera". Fortunately and apparently, it fell quickly to oblivion too, despite its funny and obvious entertaining parts.

So, for those who may be interested, good hunting.

Parla

Could I make a suggestion for the Listening Project?

How about Schubert's unfinished 10th symphony? We talked about it in the recordings board, and I think it's worth going in-depth about it a bit more.

It's a piece that's still highly controversial - there are only a handful of recordings of Brian Newbould's completion/orchestration, and the best one (in my opinion, Pierre Bartholomee with the Liege orchestra) is in fact a re-orchestration of the Newbould score instead of a faithful rendition. Stuff enough to discuss!