Listening Project
Mon, Feb 4 2013, 8:58PM
#2
RE: A note on Schumann
An aside for Naupilus:
Naupilus re: Schumann's Piano Music
Go on Youtube (I'm sorry I don't know how to cut and paste the link) and listen to HOROWITZ playing the first piece of Kreisleriana op. 16. I've listened to FIVE this morning so that I could find the best one for you and his, in my opinion, comes closest...Schiff not bad, Argerich too fast, Helene Grimaud almost, and Daniel Stagno bold touch but too heavy for this piece. What I was looking for was the person who best brings out the beautiful harmonies in the B and C sections. Argerich doesn't and Grimaud not quite.
I'll explain: the piece is structured like this
A mad, manic section - just under 10 seconds
A repeated
B emotive with ecstatic harmonies (20 seconds in the Horowitz version) and a short reprise of manic A included in this section
B repeated
C 1 lyrical, sad - starts at 1.00 in the Horowitz version
C1 repeated
C2 lyrical and sad again but with beautiful harmonies again
(check at 1.20)
C2 repeated
Once through A
Once through B
And the whole thing only takes about two and a half minutes!
I think it's a wonderful piece but then I like Kreisleriana. Yes this piece in particular is full of wild contrasts, but the harmonies as I say are staggering...The first time I heard this I fell in love with it!
The mad manic section when slowed down is unbelievably simple - speeded up it sounds incredibly virtuosic. In fact the whole piece is a lot easier than it sounds in performance!
Mark
My Aho 9 has arrived. Haven't had chance to listen to the full work as yet mind!
Mon, Feb 4 2013, 10:18PM
#3
RE: Listening Project
Amazing Bazza, that you know all these Kraus symphonies so well!
Not that well! Been a while since I played any of them other than the Cm and C#m. I really need to play all the Sundkvist and Concerto Koln recordings again.
As for your postscript, I presume that wasn't for me! :)
Tue, Feb 5 2013, 6:25AM
#4
RE: Listening Project
Mark, I don't think I misunderstood Bazza's post #8 of Feb.4. The ending of the last paragraph is clear to me, at least: "...-and none in a minor key".
Thanks for noticing my "accidental" dublication in Haydn's Symphonies (fortunately, I mentioned the nickname for those who can easily identify them).
Parla
Tue, Feb 5 2013, 7:03PM
#5
RE: Listening project
My turn now to brave the Haas piece!
But how to describe it? Cerainly weird and wonderful sounds, as Graham says, particularly for the first part (up to 11'00"). Beyond that I couldn't make much of that section. The quarter-tone intrusions seem out of place amidst so much activity.
A clear break between this and the second very slow section. Very slow moving harmonies for strings separated by what seem like increasingly lengthy pauses. It seems this movement is gradually invaded by brass and wind. I found it overstayed its welcome despite some interesting chord progressions. Then at 18'16' some pizzicato (+ percussion?) seems to herald a change of mood (and also the return of those quarter tone 'oscillations' (19'40"). Again these seem to fit uneasily with what had gone before. Clearly this section morphs into the following one (from about 25'30")but only after repeated attempts have been thwarted and I'm feeling this section has definitely outstayed its welcome. Around 28' series of ascents and descents made me fear from Graham's report that it was going to go on like that right up to ther end. But soon the second section comes to a weak close (not before time!).
After some more slow moving quarter tone drones, suddenly at 39'30" we have some almost diatonic music. Is this a Wagnerian reference? I almost expected Siegfried to appear over the horizon. Then back (42'30") to rather aggresive quarter tones. These really did sound like the sort of 'beats' you hear when two strings are slightly out of tune with one another!
Then, at last a new section with some rhythm.(the noisy gongs mentioned by Graham). Now a long difficult ascent, many ascending scales with all the notes of the chromatic scale plus a few (what is the name for a scale with more than the twelve semitones - hyperchromatic?). Eventually we reach the summit (reminded me of the way Bruckner screws up the pitches at the coda of the 4th symphony, but without the musical interest). Once there we are reminded of Newton's Law that what goes up must come down, with a rapid descent (the coda referred to by Graham). Having got to the bottom it just seems to peter out. Exhaustion perhaps.
Well, Brumas, as you've probably guessed it was much more fun describing it than listening. I didn't find it as bad as my description probably sounds, but though I normally try to listen at least twice before reporting, I'm afraid I'm not ready for a second attempt just yet!
Chris
PS Bazza, the postscript was indeed not for you!!
Wed, Feb 6 2013, 9:59AM
#6
RE: Listening Project
Chris, if the "postscricpt" was probably for me, I can assure you I often "look at the other half - the half full" (if you consider that I collect CDs for years and I cover any type of "glass", even the "almost empty"). However, the "full half" cannot justify the fact that the other half is...empty. So, in the case of Kraus, for all his numbered achievements, we cannot neglect that he is a bit far from his contemporary(ies)..."full glasses".
Parla
Wed, Feb 6 2013, 11:07AM
#7
RE: Listening Project
Fair enough Parla! I'm always curious though that, one the one hand, you are the most critical of us all about 'less than half-full' composers whilst, on the other, you probably have far more recordings of their music in your collection than any of us! I suppose these mostly represent 'the parts of your kingdom that you visit only rarely!'
For all that, I did think the Kraus was well worth hearing. There is no obvious way, is there, to compare hearing, say, one's tenth (twentieth?) recording of the 'Trout' with a first hearing of an unknown work?
All enyoyable listening anyway.
Chris
Wed, Feb 6 2013, 12:50PM
#8
RE: Listening Project
Here's an excellent analysis/description of in vain.
Chris; about the ending: you're absolutely right about it petering out. That's where the title comes from. Haas called the ending a moment of great sadness, it has all been in vain. This is of course related to the rise of the extreme right in Austria at the time the work was composed.
Parla: try, apart from not being such a negative Nancy all the time, typing a post without elipsis, quotation marks and misplaced capitals every now and then. Would be refreshing!
Wed, Feb 6 2013, 1:57PM
#9
RE: Listening Project
Parla: try, apart from not being such a negative Nancy all the time, typing a post without elipsis, quotation marks and misplaced capitals every now and then. Would be refreshing!
Would be a miracle if Parla managed to say anthing remotely intelligible!
Wed, Feb 6 2013, 3:05PM
#10
RE: Haas' In Vain
The Creator has just pulled a joke on me by forcing me to re-type the whole of this post. The first one was in vain alright, and disappeared into the great ether.
It's a fascinating listen, and my first really lengthy experience of a spectral composition. So far I have only explored a few pieces by Tristan Murail on youtube.
There are some really arresting passages. The 'swirling snow' passage at the top of the piece which returns at about the 30 minute mark being one. I especially like the quiet interlude with sliding strings from about 36-40 which put me in mind of Ligeti/Penderecki's microtonal glissandi, though more delicate than Penderecki.
In some - though not many parts - there is something intrusive; the 'out of tune' brass' coming up to the 30 minute mark being an example. The descending scalic passages when the piece 'collapses' at the end really do outstay their welcome and become disorientating.
Intellectually, the concepts involved are difficult for me to grasp, as my training is in literature/music and not maths/science. Whilst listening to the piece, I googled spectral music and found myself reading up on concepts such as spectograms, spectral density, psychoacoustics, Fourier analysis, FFT's, hybrid timbres, cross synthesis and interpolation.
When I read a sentence from Wiki such as: 'A fast Fourier transform (FFT) is an algorithm to compute the discrete Fourier transform (DFT) and its inverse', I think huh? come again.
Of course you don't have to go into the intellectual concepts behind the music, and you can just listen to it as a glorious exploration of musical sound.
I would like to see a few pages of Haas' music and how it is notated on his publisher's site Universal. Sadly there aren't any morsels on there.
Can I put a call out for Philip Clarke to explain this piece in layman's terms?
Mark
Wed, Feb 6 2013, 3:14PM
#11
RE: Listening Project
I don't think you really need to know the technical details of speactral composition to appreciate it. In part, the very point of the early works of Grisey and Murail was to move away from the intellectualism of serialism and to return to a more 'sensual' approach of music. You can view a few pages of the score in the link I added in my previous post.
Wed, Feb 6 2013, 3:59PM
#12
RE: Listening Project
Brumas, advice is His favourite vice. (The capital is not misplaced, by the way).
I admire your use of quotation marks in the "sensual" approach of music (in your last post). They make perfect sense...and the post becomes refreshing indeed. (The elipsis is necessary too).
Parla
Wed, Feb 6 2013, 3:57PM
#13
RE: Listening Project
Ah! Thanks for that. Those pages are interesting and the notation looks simpler than I would have thought!
Mark
Wed, Feb 6 2013, 4:38PM
#14
RE: Listening Project
Chris, I'm critical with the "less than half-full composers", when they are overrated, overexposed etc. The reason I have an extensive collection of all these minor (to negligible) composers is because I have to listen properly their works in my quite reliable equipment and not to hear whatever the Youtube sound can provide. I also want to have the full product and not only the audio...
When I was younger, I was excited at any new discovery, even if they were the least interested or musically developed works. The new stuff was always something refreshing. However, whenever I had to revisit the "full" composers, I realised the huge difference between an excellent (in the best possible case) and a brilliant work.
As for whether I visit them (the less than half-full composers) rarely, to a considerable extent it is true, but, frankly speaking, for all the exciting beauty and unique character, I don't think I wish to revisit that often Yamoussoukro or Cotonu, while Berlin or Beijing...(the elipsis is necessary).
Parla
Wed, Feb 6 2013, 5:24PM
#15
RE: Listening Project
Ah! Thanks for that. Those pages are interesting and the notation looks simpler than I would have thought!
Mark
Yes, it does, doesn't it? Also, quite a feat to create such a variety of sounds with only 24 instruments, let alone 24 accoustic ones!
Amazing Bazza, that you know all these Kraus symphonies so well! Let us know if there's more of the same we should listen out for! (Note: that's a lazy way of saying 'you do the work!').
As far as Taneyev is concerned, perhaps it doesn't matter: we are the ones with the listening to do, and you can respond to our collected comments at the end of the week! What say you?
Chris
PS: You are no doubt right about Haydn being the greater composer, but sometimes, why don't you look into the other half of the glass - the full half!
Chris A.Gnostic