Listening Project
Graham, the next time you find yourself in Edinburgh, visit a very good record shop named McAlister Matheson Music (MMM). You may find some surprisingly good stuff. It's a great specialised in Classical Music shop.
Parla
P.S.: By the way, the coda in Taneyev's Symphony in c minor is not "Tchaikovskian" at all. It's rather original, but, simply, over the top. Impressive though. I think 50m gave a very good account of the work, anyway.
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Well, I managed to find time to listen to 'In Vain' three times this week and its playing again as I try to put some thoughts down.
I managed to find a video of a concert performance of the music and I think this aided greatly my grappling with the basic topography. I read that Haas considers the lighting elements (which I think are marked in the score) as being the '25th player' and I found the changes in lighting were visual clues to the structure of the piece for a first time listener. Once you've seen the music played, it does make just listening to a recording easier.
I found the music emerges in and out of darkness, in and out of focus, slipping away into the distance. When more in focus the music seems to edge closer to what I'll call 'normality', only each time to fall away to something that seems closer to musical dark matter. The first descent into darkness (around 9.30) had me thinking of rain rippling down a window. The same music appears again at around 23.00, extended and at this point there is a wonderful passage on the horns which reminded me so much of Wagner and particularly Rheingold. Again the textures slide in and out of focus, as if the various strands of sound occupied separate lanes. As the Wagnerian horns slip further back into the texture the strings start a steady, steep ascent accompanied by percussion. It's very much a personal view but I found myself being reminded of The Alpine Symphony at this point and in particular the section describing the ascent to the summit. And then the music drops into a rippling descent - as if drawn back down to the darkness by gravity. I think it is this middle section that speaks to me most immediately at present - and of course the terribly purple prose does not do the music much of a service.
One composer who sprang to mind when I listened to this piece was Harry Partch, if only in that the strangeness of music and it seemed to make it a kindered spirit to his work. (I must make sure I listen to some Partch this week). Another was Magnus Hillborg and in particular his 'Eleven Gates' - perhaps these associations will prove false when I sit down and pull these pieces of music out but the spring to mind now. And then I also hear elements of Berg's Three Orchestral Pieces in the climatic sections - partcularly the final Marsch section with the massive orchestration and crushing climaxes.
I am not going to declare In Vain a masterpiece, in part because I always feel posterity is the best judge. But I did find it fascinating and that fascination is not diminishing with each listen. For me that quality alone makes it worth my time, so the CD is in the post!
Naupilus
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Hi Naupilus,
I was very interested to read your description of in vain, not least because it agrees well, as a description, with mine (even about the Wagner references)! That's always encouraging. Obviously though, you enjoyed it more than I did. I must admit your comparison with the Berg orchestral pieces did not come to mind for me. It's a long time since I last heard the Richard Strauss Alpine Symphony: it was never one of my favourites amongst his orchestral works.
Let's see how Taneyev fares. Then I think I'll be ready for something quieter!
Chris
Chris A.Gnostic
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Chris
The Alpine Symphony is one of my guilty pleasures! Auf dem Gipfel never fails to take my breath away. If I am not mistaken one of the things Strauss does it to invert some of the material from the ascent section to become the descent. I don't think Haas used that effect but just in the way he uses glissandos (I think I am right?) leads to the music gives the impression of ascending and descending at various points. The material I read about In Vain talks about Haas' fascination with Escher and the concept of Penrose staircases and I can see what he is driving at. In Vain may well be a response to a political event but again I was drawn to another comparison, the Myth of Sisyphus, which I am familiar with mainly through Camus' writing. I wonder if the reason Haas' work is less harsh than the theme might suggest is becuase it is less an act of despair and more acceptance of the struggle. Every listener brings their own baggage to a piece of music and so these thoughts are just personal.
I look forward to the Taneyev - it will make a change from all the music in the streets this week during Carnival!
Naupilus
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Well, I managed to find time to listen to 'In Vain' three times this week and its playing again as I try to put some thoughts down.
I managed to find a video of a concert performance of the music and I think this aided greatly my grappling with the basic topography. I read that Haas considers the lighting elements (which I think are marked in the score) as being the '25th player' and I found the changes in lighting were visual clues to the structure of the piece for a first time listener. Once you've seen the music played, it does make just listening to a recording easier.
I found the music emerges in and out of darkness, in and out of focus, slipping away into the distance. When more in focus the music seems to edge closer to what I'll call 'normality', only each time to fall away to something that seems closer to musical dark matter. The first descent into darkness (around 9.30) had me thinking of rain rippling down a window. The same music appears again at around 23.00, extended and at this point there is a wonderful passage on the horns which reminded me so much of Wagner and particularly Rheingold. Again the textures slide in and out of focus, as if the various strands of sound occupied separate lanes. As the Wagnerian horns slip further back into the texture the strings start a steady, steep ascent accompanied by percussion. It's very much a personal view but I found myself being reminded of The Alpine Symphony at this point and in particular the section describing the ascent to the summit. And then the music drops into a rippling descent - as if drawn back down to the darkness by gravity. I think it is this middle section that speaks to me most immediately at present - and of course the terribly purple prose does not do the music much of a service.
One composer who sprang to mind when I listened to this piece was Harry Partch, if only in that the strangeness of music and it seemed to make it a kindered spirit to his work. (I must make sure I listen to some Partch this week). Another was Magnus Hillborg and in particular his 'Eleven Gates' - perhaps these associations will prove false when I sit down and pull these pieces of music out but the spring to mind now. And then I also hear elements of Berg's Three Orchestral Pieces in the climatic sections - partcularly the final Marsch section with the massive orchestration and crushing climaxes.
I am not going to declare In Vain a masterpiece, in part because I always feel posterity is the best judge. But I did find it fascinating and that fascination is not diminishing with each listen. For me that quality alone makes it worth my time, so the CD is in the post!
Great description, I think you touch upon some interesting points. You're right in saying that seeing the work preformed helps a lot in understanding its structure. Haas saw the light effects as a sort of 'visual percussion', so having seen that video-recording did help in grasping this difficult music.
Partch was of course dealing with similar thematics, rethinking the natural harmonics and the ways these are employed in various tonal systems.
I also think that the Alpine-symphony comparison is not that strange. Haas is very deliberately going for the Sublime. That's why I refered to in vain as crypto-romantic: kind of like Wagner and Strauss filtered through two centuries of music history.
And now, on to the Tanayev! I have already read some interesting comments here, so I'm eager to hear it!
And loudly from the rooftops hear us shout it --- "Down with the New Age and the proliferation of pet ideologies that only divide hearts on Sacred Observance, and play directly into the hands of globalist hegemonic powers. Up with the simple inextinguishable Light of Truth".
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So, no more no less, Herr Haas seems to be a fair successor (even in a "crypto-romantic" way) to Wagner and R. Strauss thanks to this vain sound (and light) fabric! And, in another way, to Berg as well. I trust even himself would not find this as necessary and, possibly, not even a compliment.
The fact that some may identify references (sometimes even close to some great works of the glorious past) does not mean anything as long as these "references" are pulverised in the development and the actual identity of the form and structure of this sound construction, which I wonder, as Graham put the relevant question, in which way it can possibly fit in the Classical Music genre.
Parla
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Having just listened twice this pm to the Aho 9, I am thrilled with the whole work, which, imo, is a masterpiece!
The soulful opening, and the more agitated follow-up, and then the courtly dance - a great exposition for a symphony. Over the top of the dance is a tricky trombone solo.The quiet section which follows the courtly dance is beautiful. As is the ending to the first movement - harpsichord and woodwinds, broken by drum thuds!
The 2nd movement's opening section is magical - there's a climbing trombone theme fanfare-ish over multi-divisi strings. Later on in the movement as you say Chris the trombone starts to re-iterate the solo work from the 1st movement over the brass.
The 3rd is kind of mad-military in its opening. I just have one quibble - that the trombone cadenza could have done with fewer deliberately weird effects at this point. I would have liked to have heard a purely naked soulful trombone a la opening movement. BUT this movement is all about distortion, and when the courtly dance returns there is an unmistakeable ghostly dissonant shiver on the harpsichord. Something has changed, and the last movement is telling us that you can no longer have your minuets etc...
Overall, the piece mixes great beauty with comic grotesque sardonic humour - there are moments which remind you of The Sorcerer's Apprentice in rushing towards mayhem. Personally I think it is a great work.
Great beauty plus sardonic humour? Does that remind you of other composers? Dmitri S? Wolfgang AM?
Thanks for this suggestion. Now for more Aho! (And Taneyev this coming week).
Mark
PS It looks like the FIMA (Forum International Masterpiece Award) has honoured Haas' In Vain. I would also suggest this symphony as worthy of the same award!
Mark
PPS Graham - I hear you. It does make you feel like a vulture yes.
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"Great beauty plus sardonic humour"? Fortunately, Aho reminds you, Mark, only of Dmitri and Wolfie (I wonder where you did find his humour sardonic). Another composer excelled in these two qualities, particularly the sardonic humour, that is Gustav M. For some peculiar reason, Mr. Aho didn't remind you of him. So, he cannot be a holdover of the last great Romantic (and post Romantic) composer.
What else the excitement of the first encounter can make you say...
Parla
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Having just listened twice this pm to the Aho 9, I am thrilled with the whole work, which, imo, is a masterpiece!
The soulful opening, and the more agitated follow-up, and then the courtly dance - a great exposition for a symphony. Over the top of the dance is a tricky trombone solo.The quiet section which follows the courtly dance is beautiful. As is the ending to the first movement - harpsichord and woodwinds, broken by drum thuds!
The 2nd movement's opening section is magical - there's a climbing trombone theme fanfare-ish over multi-divisi strings. Later on in the movement as you say Chris the trombone starts to re-iterate the solo work from the 1st movement over the brass.
The 3rd is kind of mad-military in its opening. I just have one quibble - that the trombone cadenza could have done with fewer deliberately weird effects at this point. I would have liked to have heard a purely naked soulful trombone a la opening movement. BUT this movement is all about distortion, and when the courtly dance returns there is an unmistakeable ghostly dissonant shiver on the harpsichord. Something has changed, and the last movement is telling us that you can no longer have your minuets etc...
Overall, the piece mixes great beauty with comic grotesque sardonic humour - there are moments which remind you of The Sorcerer's Apprentice in rushing towards mayhem. Personally I think it is a great work.
Great beauty plus sardonic humour? Does that remind you of other composers? Dmitri S? Wolfgang AM?
Thanks for this suggestion. Now for more Aho! (And Taneyev this coming week).
Mark
PS It looks like the FIMA (Forum International Masterpiece Award) has honoured Haas' In Vain. I would also suggest this symphony as worthy of the same award!
Mark
PPS Graham - I hear you. It does make you feel like a vulture yes.
You should also give his 13th symphony (which was bazza's first idea for a contibution) a chance. I liked that one even more than the 9th!
And loudly from the rooftops hear us shout it --- "Down with the New Age and the proliferation of pet ideologies that only divide hearts on Sacred Observance, and play directly into the hands of globalist hegemonic powers. Up with the simple inextinguishable Light of Truth".
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Hi Mark
I was in HMV in Edinburgh last week, scouring the racks for bargains. It was quite sad actually, like picking over a dead body. I got a 2-CD DG set of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsodies played by Roberto Szidon and a 3-CD EMI set of Ravel's orchestral works with Martinon and the Orchestra de Paris, each for £7.50. I listened to the Liszt today and marvelled at the writing and playing. Strangely I've never managed to hear these works, apart from the second one on that Tom & Jerry cartoon.
Its onto the Tanayev for me soon. I've always been a sucker for those Tchaikovskian over-extended brass and precussian codas!
Graham