Listening Project
Wed, Dec 12 2012, 4:20PM
#2
RE: Listening Project
I hardly think there ever was any debate about youtube being far from optimal for listening to music...
To me, Scelsi is one of the very greatest. He was amongst the first to tap into the huge potential already hidden in the single note. I think the sheer power of his works after 1959's Quattro Pezzi is paralelled by very few composers. I believe a lot of people here might really enjoy this work, since it is a lot more sonorous and accesible than a lot of other 20th century music. But let's save this discussion for the 30th.
Also, Parla, you stated you would not participate in this thread, but you evidently are. So, why not add a piece to the list? You obviously have a broad knowledge of the repertoire, so share some music with us. If you want to play the game, respect the rules...
best,
Brumas.
Wed, Dec 12 2012, 4:41PM
#3
RE: Listening Project
(I agree that the soundquality of youtube is debatable. However, for most, it is probably the easiest (free) way of listening to the music. Alternatives are borrowing at the local library, buying, downloading or perhaps Spotify (I have no experience with it, but apparently the sound quality is better than with youtube). Or, perhaps, we can start a Dropbox group to exchange the music... )
I tried to download Spotify to see how useful it would be, only to find 'it is not available in my country'. So that's that, unfortunately. Probably we have no alternative to YouTube, unless your communal Dropbox idea would work (and not cause copyright problems). If it could work it would increase the options open to us. But can it be done?
Anyway thanks Brumas. I think your thread is beginning to 'blossom'.
Chris
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 12:09AM
#4
RE: Listening Project
I don't "play the game" (it's interesting you call the whole project a game). So, I don't "participate" in this thread; I comment on it.
I have already mentioned a good number of works only on this thread. If you wish to choose one of them and "add it to the list", be my guest.
Parla
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 12:01PM
#5
RE: Listening Project
OK. I've listened carefully to the Vermeulen symphony. Sound was not bad.
Quite a striking opening but after a little while the unrelenting, unvaried rhythmic drive began to wear thin on my patience. The rather limited highly repetitive patterns for strings and brass did not seem to build anywhere. The words 'dogged' and 'earnest' come to mind. I was sorry for the poor trumpets!
Hoping for some relief after the first movement, the second started (again) promisingly and quietly, but in no time we seemed to be back in the world of the first movement. The last movement too seemed to be just more of the same. Structural consistency is a fine thing but this seemed obsessively repetitive to me. Only the timpani were saved to give some extra 'oomph' to the final pages.
Ultimately, I suppose I might have felt differently if there had been more melodic or textural interest. In their different ways Shostakovich and Hindemith did the same sort of thing so much better!
I do find it difficult writing accurately about a piece of music, and am only too aware that there are probably works I love and/or admire that could be criticised in the same way. Though it seemed irrelevant when I read it, I'm beginning to understand what Parla was perhaps hinting at when he suggested that many of us do not know the Trout Quintet well enough. It is difficult enough writing a description of what is attractive about works we think we know well, and even more difficult addressing a 'new' work, with very little accumulated wisdom to fall back on! One thing this thread certainly has done is increase my admiration especially for those critics who write about first recordings of new music! Anyway the effort is 'good for me', even if not so rewarding for readers!
Chris
PS: Parla why don't you go the extra few centimetres and make a specific suggestion for the thread from your enormous stote of under-rated masterpieces!
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 12:45PM
#6
RE: Listening Project RE: Listening Project
Parla why don't you go the extra few centimetres and make a specific suggestion for the thread from your enormous stote of under-rated masterpieces!
But if he isn't going to take part, why should he get to make any suggestions? It just doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the thing to me. Surely the people who are going to devote some time to listening to this stuff should be the ones to make suggestions and not someone standing outside who is just too superior to enter into the "game".
Furthermore, it is only an assumption that he has an "enormous store" of music - and not a very good one, either. We don't know the first thing about him; we only have his posts. And as far as I can see, no human being could possibly know what he claims to know or have listened to what he has claimed to listen to. More than likely, he simply googles the latest reference and then bangs off another post. (Look back over his comments on Koppel and you can see this process in action.)
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 5:17PM
#7
RE: Listening Project RE: Listening Project
Furthermore, it is only an assumption that he has an "enormous store" of music - and not a very good one, either. We don't know the first thing about him; we only have his posts. And as far as I can see, no human being could possibly know what he claims to know or have listened to what he has claimed to listen to. More than likely, he simply googles the latest reference and then bangs off another post. (Look back over his comments on Koppel and you can see this process in action.)
Exactly. He has been caught out more than once cutting and pasting an article from Wikipedia and passing it off as his own thoughts. The man is a charlatan who deserves nothing but contempt.
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 6:14PM
#8
RE: Listening Project RE: Listening Project
Craig, Jane,
I've just been through this thread again, and below I've copied your relevant contributions so far:
Craig:
" "
Jane
" "
Well, I suppose no-one could complain that you copied these from Wikipedia!
???
Chris
Sorry, no offence meant but I couldn't resist!!
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 6:15PM
#9
RE: Listening Project RE: Listening Project
Chris,
That's right, Chris. Keep sucking up to the Big P.
(Oh, please Parla! Please give us your wisdom! We are just lowly, humble cretins! Without you, we are nothing! Please give us the benefit of your knowledge! Look deep into your endless collection! That's it! Don't stop! Oh, yes! Yes!...........)
Jane
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 6:25PM
#10
RE: Listening Project RE: Listening Project
Let me state directly what I was trying, good humouredly, to say Jane: Your contribution to this thread consists only of attacking Parla: do you actually have any interest in the thread itself? My comment has nothing to do with sucking up to anyone, nor attacking anyone. This is a really nice thread. Why sabotage it if you don't want to contribute. I think there's an expression about the pot calling the kettle black.
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 6:31PM
#11
RE: Listening Project
Jane
Chris is right. Rather than contributing meaningfully to the discussion you just take every opportunity to criticise another member with your bitchy sarcastic tone and it is wearing thin. Have you not got a better use for your spare time?
Parla, in fairness to the way the project is intended to work, you should put a piece forward and take part properly. Go on, please, its dead easy!! Even I can do it.
Graham
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 6:35PM
#12
RE: Listening Project RE: Listening Project
I was not trying to sabotage it. I was, in fact, hoping to take part. I thought it was a great idea. But I knew this wasn't possible as long as Parla was there to spoil it with his patronising nonsense. Obviously, this doesn't bother you very much, but it does bother me. I thought, wrongly, that he might be persuaded to leave it alone if he was heckled enough. Foolish, no doubt, but the underlying intention was honourable.
But perhaps you are right: perhaps I am now the one sabotaging it. I will delete all my messages later on and absolutely promise not to intervene again.
Jane, for the last time.
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 6:56PM
#13
RE: Listening Project
What ever happened to VicJay and where did Jane come from?Twins maybe?
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 8:43PM
#14
RE: Listening Project
Graham, Oddly enough I was playing Rota's first just the other day. Not bad - but I think the third is the superior piece. Try to hear that if you don't already know it.
Fri, Dec 14 2012, 12:18AM
#15
RE: Listening Project
Having been busier for a day and the thread got on fire. Well, let's see how many of you I do have to address:
Jane, I guess you may understand by now that the rules of the participation in any anonymous forum is to deal and build and defend your message, not to deal with other posters. For your information, it is possible for someone who spends a couple of hours for more than three decades in listening, following or even preparing concerts to have listened a huge variety of works (and in a fair variety of performances). It is also rare but not impossible for someone who is willing and able to spend a substantive amount on new releases every month to build an enormous collection. However, this is not the issue here, since we don't deal with and we cannot prove anything about the posters. In any case, you are free to shine through with your fair contributions (your messages on music) regardless of any distraction...To have 12 posts so far, all of them attacking me is a very negative reccord.
Chris, it's not "few extra centimetres" to make a suggestion..., while it seems "dead easy", as Graham suggests. As for the exisitng rather loose terms of reference of the project (or the rules of the game), I have to cover some extra miles. However, in my previous posts/comments I suggested some works, which I trust can be excellent items for further listening and deeper exploration. So, one of you (Chris, Graham or Brumas perhaps) may propose it formally.
Finally, may I propose some a bit (or not) different terms of reference for some listening projects. Instead of choosing randomly some under-rated masterpieces of dubious character or extremely neglected, obscure and marginal works, which may be significant for a specialised minority group but they cannot attract a variety and a good number of members (for the time being, I see about 3-4 members eager to participate), why not embark on theme projects on group and related works (where neglected, unknown, overlooked masterpieces can come to the attention of all the participants and those who simply...watch the thread). For example, Haydn's Piano Trios is a huge project and contains an almost 80-90% less or unknown masterpieces; Brahms' Piano Quartets are three major, but rather overlooked and possibly underrated, masterworks etc. On the other, we may undertake projects on what Beethoven wrote in f minor or what the E flat key meant to him (in this way, we have to indulge, explore parallel works and we may build a further knowledge and different perspective on even the great Masters' well-known works).
It's only a suggestion doomed to fail, but I just noticed Bazza suggesting to Graham Rota's Third Symphony instead ofthe already proposed First. In a theme project, we (you) may deal with all Rota's Symphonies, examining them not only as a mere listening experience, but also identifying the threads connecting the three of them, common features and differences, relation with previous or contemporary composers, etc.
Anyway, it's your call.
Parla
Thanks Chris for formally suggesting Cavalli's Salve Regina and Brumas for adopting this informal proposal of mine. The "list" looks somehow meaningful, but it is more interesting, anyway.
Of course, still the New Year is to start with such a work like "Aion" (the Eternity, in ancient Greek), a controversial, marginal contemporary work, with a more controversial and bizarre orchestration.
Rota's Symphony is more accessible, not necessarily great 20th century music, but it is tuneful indeed, tonal enough (it is in the happy G major key) and beautiful music.
Thanks, Brumas, for accepting the fact that youtube is not the most accurate way to listen to a piece of music.
Parla