Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Fri, Nov 25 2011, 7:58PM
#2
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Thanks your comment on orchestration of the Rhapsodies, Naupilus, seems Mercury's booklet writer got it correct.
My own favourite liszt recordings include:
Sonata - Bolet (both Everest & Decca versions), Curzon and most magisterial of all, Arrau; perhaps because I once heard him play it live. I find all Arrau's Liszt generally unsurpassed and thought we may have had a boxed set of his Philips recordings for Liszt year (unless I've missed it) as Philips seem to have managed to produce some of the worst LP pressings I've ever had.
Concertos - Brendel (both Vox & Philips versions) and Katchen.
Other works - Bolet's Decca series and RCA's "Bolet Rediscovered" CD.
3 Liebestraume, 3 Petrarch Sonnets, 3 Concert Studies - Kathryn Stott (Conifer CD).
For Liszt the showman at his most flamboyant it has to be Raymond Lewenthal's RCA LP of the Reminicences de Norma & the Hexameron. The latter has appeared on CD but not to the best of my knowledge the former. This is a truly fabulous Liszt record.
And lastly something I have to admit surprised me. I am not greatly given to the hype of TV talent-type shows and was not entirely convinced by Sophie Cashell on some BBC 2 effort some years ago. Browsing in a CD shop however I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt and bought her CD. Her Liszt items however are quite superb, the 3 Liebestraume but most of all the Second Ballade, one of Liszt's masterpieces, is given a performance of maturity, poetry and virtuosity which absolutely astonished me. I was blown away by it - a fantastic performance.
Sat, Nov 26 2011, 1:25AM
#3
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
PS Another great Liszt recording I'd forgotten about until I just played it is a Reference Recordings LP by the Japanese pianist, perhaps something of an outsider, certainly in the UK, Minoru Nojima. Not exactly as well known as the others I mentioned but his recording of the Sonata is up with the greatest, perhaps not least as this is one of the most realistic sounding piano recordings I have heard. I seem to recall reading that one of the four items on the second side, Harmonies du Soir, had the dubious distinction of being selected by Barrington Coupe for one of the recordings passed off as being by his late wife Joyce Hatto.
Mon, Nov 28 2011, 12:37AM
#4
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Further to my post on the orchestral music, listening to the Faust symphony over the weekend made me wonder what Mahler would have done without this example of a large scale orchestral rhapsody on philosophical themes. Maybe he would have been a "proper" opera composer, with a few classical scale symphonies on the side....
BTW, my mention of a Richter/Mravinsky radio recording of one of the Liszt concertos was an error - it was actually the Tchaik 1st :(
Mon, Nov 28 2011, 3:35PM
#5
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
The influence of Liszt on Mahler is a bit far-fetched, eyeresist. Maybe, Wagner had played a more vital role than the rather ambivalent Liszt's tone poems or Faust's Symphony. In any case, even Liszt's orchestral works have been heavily influenced by Wagner too.
Parla
Mon, Nov 28 2011, 4:15PM
#6
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
The influence of Liszt on Mahler is a bit far-fetched, eyeresist. Maybe, Wagner had played a more vital role than the rather ambivalent Liszt's tone poems or Faust's Symphony. In any case, even Liszt's orchestral works have been heavily influenced by Wagner too.
Parla
Other way round, surely?
Mon, Nov 28 2011, 9:20PM
#7
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
I'm not very experienced when it comes to Liszt, but I'd like to mention two discs that I really liked this year.
The first is Hamelin's recital disc (Hyperion). It includes his sonata and I must say, although it wasn't my first time hearing it, that it was Hamelin's approach that made it click for me. Now, it just flies by whenever I listen to it, I don't really realize when I get to the end. I thought this was an amazing disc, every bit of it.
The second one is Lortie's Années de Pèlerinages (Chandos). I thought that was a good listen and I came back to it many times. I like how it feels like a collection of different moods and things, that's nice. Plus, I was on a trip in Switzerland right after getting the disc, so it made all the more sense.
I was thinking of trying out Hough's new disc of the Liszt/Grieg concertos. Has anybody listened to this new release?
Also, I'm really tempted by his transcriptions of Beethoven's symphonies. For some reason, at this point I find them quite appealing. I've only heard bits of them. Can anybody recommend some recordings? (ideally available for download at an online store)
I could also mentioned that I heard his Dante symphony in concert at the Enescu Festival in September, played by Staatskapelle Berlin with Barenboim conducting. It left me with mixed feelings, honestly, but I suspect it might have had something to do with my mood – I dislike Barenboim's piano playing and the concert had opened with a Mozart piano concerto that rubbed me the wrong way. Anyway, that's why I'm not exactly prepared to give up on Liszt the orchestral composer just yet.
Mon, Nov 28 2011, 10:26PM
#8
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
MN
Hamelin has recorded three wonderful Liszt discs - the others being a mixed recital (recorded live) and a set of Liszt & Schubert Marches. I am really hoping that one day Hamelin will record the piano version of Totentanz or the Dante Sonata.
As for orchestral Liszt if you are looking for symphonic argument as set out by a master like Beethoven or Brahms then you will be disappointed. Liszt is part of the fork in the road that happened in the nineteenth century - one way went Brahms and another went Berlioz/Liszt/Strauss. The are some who hear Tchaikovsky in Liszt, particularly the symphonic poems.
Mon, Nov 28 2011, 10:26PM
#9
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
MN
Hamelin has recorded three wonderful Liszt discs - the others being a mixed recital (recorded live) and a set of Liszt & Schubert Marches. I am really hoping that one day Hamelin will record the piano version of Totentanz or the Dante Sonata.
As for orchestral Liszt if you are looking for symphonic argument as set out by a master like Beethoven or Brahms then you will be disappointed. Liszt is part of the fork in the road that happened in the nineteenth century - one way went Brahms and another went Berlioz/Liszt/Strauss. The are some who hear Tchaikovsky in Liszt, particularly the symphonic poems.
Tue, Nov 29 2011, 1:50AM
#10
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Other way round, surely?
That's what I was thinking. Apparently one of the motifs from Liszt's Faust was later "borrowed" for Die Walkure! Actually, it's probably fairer to say there was cross-pollination. Liszt was full of grand ideas, but just didn't have Wagner's technical and architectural discipline.
From an interesting interview with Nike Wagner:
Wagner thought Liszt was crazy in his later years. And yet his late works and their emerging atonality were far more modern than Wagner's. But it's true that Richard loved and always respected Franz. Liszt's music wasn't buried until after his death.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,775814,00.html
She also talks about the Wagner clan's failure to acknowledge its debt not only to Liszt but also to Wieland Wagner.
The book Wagner and his Works by Henry Theophilus Finck has a chapter on "Wagner's opinion of Liszt's music", which includes a nice anecdote:
It was at a rehearsal of the Walkure in 1876, which Liszt attended, when suddenly, as Sieglinde utters her dream-words, 'Did father then return,' Richard Wagner seized Liszt's arm, exclaiming: 'Papa, here comes a theme which I got from you.' 'Very well,' replied Liszt, 'then it will at least have a chance of getting a hearing!' The theme in question is the beginning of the Faust symphony, at the first hearing of which ... Wagner exclaimed rapturously: 'Many beautiful and delightful things there are in music, but this music is divinely beautiful!'
Tue, Nov 29 2011, 7:30AM
#11
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Naupilus,
That's fine. I try to discipline myself to not expect different things and take a composer's work on it's own terms. I'm happy when I manage to do it. I think I will try that Volkov disc, Funeral Odes. Not to be too gloomy on a Tuesday morning, but it sparked my interest.
And now to completely go head on against my first paragraph, am I right in expecting Liszt's orchestration to remain rather sparse for all his career? Even in that trio you put him, alongside Berlioz and Strauss, his orchestration has a sort of straightforward feel to it, I think. Does that change?
Also, I was very close to picking up that Hamelin marches disc that you mentioned, but that month's budget eventually went to another disc. I think I'll be back, though, can't seem to get enough of this great pianist.
Wed, Nov 30 2011, 8:03AM
#12
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Naupilus,
That's fine. I try to discipline myself to not expect different things and take a composer's work on it's own terms. I'm happy when I manage to do it. I think I will try that Volkov disc, Funeral Odes. Not to be too gloomy on a Tuesday morning, but it sparked my interest.
And now to completely go head on against my first paragraph, am I right in expecting Liszt's orchestration to remain rather sparse for all his career? Even in that trio you put him, alongside Berlioz and Strauss, his orchestration has a sort of straightforward feel to it, I think. Does that change?
Also, I was very close to picking up that Hamelin marches disc that you mentioned, but that month's budget eventually went to another disc. I think I'll be back, though, can't seem to get enough of this great pianist.
MN
I would not put Liszt in the line of Berlioz and Strauss because of orchestration - both were, for my ears, better and more flexible orchestrators. It is more in the type of orchestral music and the ideas that they chose to express muscially that I hear a line. Berlioz wrote some of the most amazing programmatic music (I still feel the Symphony Fantastique is a work composed before its time) and all three used Byron as inspiration (and the work of poets in general). All three really found it hard to work within the traditional forms. Both Berlioz and Liszt seem to me to have been restless innovators - Berlioz more consistent than Liszt perhaps. Strauss is slightly different - the early orchestral works have the sheer audacity of Berlioz and the plastciity of form that one hears often in Liszt. Later Strauss seems less revolutionary in comparison - but most definitely the work of a master. Eduard Said writes very well about late Strauss (and late Beethoven) and gave me a new interest in the wind sonatinas.
Prompted by our exchange I listened again to the Volkov disc. Yes some of the material falls short but at moments I found myself in the soundworld of Wagner. The pleasure in listeningto music like this is not so much the greatness but instead the chance to make connections and see where a composer's ideas come from, together with where the may lead. I remember Daniel Barenboim once commenting about Parsifal, "first act sounds like Bruckner, the second like Liszt and the third like Debussy". And I hear those links too - as if all the music is connected. Of course Wagner does not sound like Debussy (it would have to be the other way round!) but echoes and refelctions bounce both ways.
Do try more Hamelin if you can. He is a top pianist and musician and I am always happy to see he records music that often is left uncovered. I have yet to come to terms with his Reger piano concerto, but one day maybe!
Fri, Dec 2 2011, 4:12AM
#13
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Further to my previous assertions regarding Liszt and Mahler, I urge you to listen to the Heroide Funebre (I'm listening to the Masur recording now). Such a shame he never completed his "Revolutionary" symphony (the Heroide Funebre was intended as the first movement).
Fri, Dec 2 2011, 6:55AM
#14
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Has anybody spent more than a normal time listening to Liszt this year?
Yes - the 'Listening to Music' group I attend are spending 2 x 2 hour sessions on him - even though there's no live Liszt to be heard anywhere in my area!
This week I discovered pianist Gyorgy Cziffra - still yet to explore properly - and the 9 Beethoven piano transcriptions. Arguably redundant, now that we have full recordings of orchestra and choir but I like them.
Next week - orchestral from the Weimar period - I'll let you know what makes an impression then.
Fri, Dec 2 2011, 9:10PM
#15
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Has anybody spent more than a normal time listening to Liszt this year?
Yes - the 'Listening to Music' group I attend are spending 2 x 2 hour sessions on him - even though there's no live Liszt to be heard anywhere in my area!
This week I discovered pianist Gyorgy Cziffra - still yet to explore properly - and the 9 Beethoven piano transcriptions. Arguably redundant, now that we have full recordings of orchestra and choir but I like them.
Next week - orchestral from the Weimar period - I'll let you know what makes an impression then.
It is funny but I think that now we have Beethoven on tap at any moment, courtesy of a recording, we hear the Liszt transcriptions with different ears. When Liszt wrote these pieces they were emissaries for Beethoven and now they tell us something of Liszt the listener. In any work of transcription that skill in choosing what to take out and what to focus upon. Play a Liszt trasnscription before the real thing if you have time - beethoven sounds even fresher than ever!
I think my favourite recordings that I purchased in 2011 are (in no particular order):
Funeral Odes (Volkov/BBCSSO/Hyperion) - great disc of lesser known Liszt. Maybe just too much in one listening though.
Piano Sonata etc. (Buniatishvili/Song) - strange album cover, complete with white swn, but fascinating, heart on sleeve playing. Not for every day I suspect, but when one needs a jolt!
Grey Clouds (Djordjevic/private label) - This won the Liszt Prize in 2010 (I think) and I managed to grab a copy while in the US. I love the late piano works. I have to admit that I sometimes don't understand them fully, but they are so fascinating.
Liszt Recital (Wilhelm Kempff/DG) - I was not sure I could see Kempff playing Liszt well but his wonderful gentle and (for me at least) unique sound fits the musis selected hand in glove. Kempff is old school in the best sense.
Tontentanz (Valentina Lisitsa/YouTube) - Apologies as this not a recording, but a video. Everytime I watch it I just think, "Yikes!". Maybe others might agree... click here
I have to say though that for me the best Liszt I have heard is the piano concertos with Zimerman and Ozawa. Just brilliant!
Naupilus