Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Sun, Dec 4 2011, 8:29AM
#2
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Try playing Beethoven's 5th symphony at full volume whilst having a bath with your head under the water. Try it several times and see how far through the symphony you can get. (you may get different perspectives - one may involve the neighbours, one may involve paramedics - let us know the results)
Sun, Dec 4 2011, 12:54PM
#3
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Funny you should mention Beet's 5th Magnus - I heard that the first recording of it took place in Berlin in 1910. I'd love to hear this recording but I don't have an acoustic gramophone...yet.
Sun, Dec 4 2011, 8:50PM
#4
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
I will...actually, this is just the sort of development I was hoping for when signing up for the listening group - the ability for hear familiar music from a different perspective.
Kev,
The relationship between Beethoven and Liszt is interesting. Beethoven met Liszt once, when Liszt was only 11 years old. Beethoven had a very low opinion of child prodigies and at that time Liszt was just becoming a star, while also being a pupil of Czerny, who was in turn a pupil of Beethoven himself. It seems Liszt only really won Beethoven over when he played part of the C minor (3rd) piano concerto. Liszt went on to be the leading Beethoven interpreter of his time, playing works like the Hammerklavier Sonata when audiences probably would have been just as happy to hear Hummel, Moscheles or one of the operatic fantasies that Liszt created.
What is surprising is the older Liszt own attitude to prodigies, which was dismissive. He concluded they were, 'artists who are to be.'
Sun, Dec 4 2011, 9:14PM
#5
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
...are to be or not are to be, that is the question.
Mon, Dec 5 2011, 7:31AM
#6
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
...are to be or not are to be, that is the question.
As you accuse me elsewhere of getting a bit petty in my old age, I'll venture to suggest that
... are to be or are not to be, that is the question
might be a bit neater and more grammatical.
Vic.
Mon, Dec 5 2011, 11:59PM
#7
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Tontentanz (Valentina Lisitsa/YouTube)
Yes, astonishing - I found this on a Naxos CD too with some Beethoven, Schumann and Thalberg. Thanks for the Beethoven anecdote naupilus. Are you a Liszt scholar or just a fan? Do you have a favourite book about him?
Tue, Dec 6 2011, 7:21AM
#8
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Grey Clouds (Djordjevic/private label) - This won... .I have to admit that I sometimes don't understand them fully,...
Intriguing - is that from a technical or philosophical viewpoint? Both maybe?
Tue, Dec 6 2011, 3:20PM
#9
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Yes, astonishing - I found this on a Naxos CD too with some Beethoven, Schumann and Thalberg. Thanks for the Beethoven anecdote naupilus. Are you a Liszt scholar or just a fan? Do you have a favourite book about him?
Kev
No I cannot claim to be a Liszt scholar - I just happened to read about this meting two days ago as I currently navigating my way through Alan Walker's Liszt biography (three volumes of it!). Would this be my favourite? I will let you know, thoug to be honest there are not that many books about Liszt out there - walker sems to have killed off all oppoosition for the time being, a little like David Cairns and Berlioz.
Tue, Dec 6 2011, 3:28PM
#10
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Grey Clouds (Djordjevic/private label) - This won... .I have to admit that I sometimes don't understand them fully,...
Intriguing - is that from a technical or philosophical viewpoint? Both maybe?
Kev - I am a lesser mortal who just listens, but hopefully with keen ears. When I said I didn't understand them fully it is just that I need more time to work out in my own mind what it is that is being communicated by the composer (and consequently the musician).
Thu, Dec 8 2011, 8:44AM
#11
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
...I currently navigating my way through Alan Walker's Liszt biography (three volumes of it!).
I admire your dedication naupilus - 3 volumes may be a little ambitious for me at the moment but my group leader had 'Liszt' by Derek Watson so I'll start with that probably. In the appendix there's a chronology of events - I like dates. Does your 3 volumes have plenty of colour pictures or is it all text?
Thu, Dec 8 2011, 8:55AM
#12
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
...I need more time to work out in my own mind what it is that is being communicated by the composer (and consequently the musician).
This week we had the Piano Sonata in B minor (30 minutes of music cultivated from 4 notes - played by LLyr Williams [aspergers syndrome]) - some people seem to think it's about Faust but Liszt didn't say according to my group leader. The listener seems to have a dilemma when the composer doesn't say. What's your plan in that scenario naupilus?
We also had the Piano Concerto #2 (not played much today perhaps because of lack of catchy melody). Also 'The way of the cross'. Apparently, Liszt had plans for the new organ installed during cathedral refurbishment but I don't have details of that yet.
Thu, Dec 8 2011, 8:18PM
#13
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
...I need more time to work out in my own mind what it is that is being communicated by the composer (and consequently the musician).
This week we had the Piano Sonata in B minor (30 minutes of music cultivated from 4 notes - played by LLyr Williams [aspergers syndrome]) - some people seem to think it's about Faust but Liszt didn't say according to my group leader. The listener seems to have a dilemma when the composer doesn't say. What's your plan in that scenario naupilus?
We also had the Piano Concerto #2 (not played much today perhaps because of lack of catchy melody). Also 'The way of the cross'. Apparently, Liszt had plans for the new organ installed during cathedral refurbishment but I don't have details of that yet.
Kev
When I wrote about 'what is being communicated' I was not thinking necessarily of a specific program, but rather what Liszt is trying to communicate in terms of feelings, metaphysics or whatever else you want to call the magical element in music. So if I am still trying to work out the music, that is my problem - where does it fit with me as a listener? That sounds like a terrible answer to your question, but I cannot think of something more cogent at present!
Amazed you think the 2nd piano concerto has no tunes! I love the piece, all splashy and then incredibly delicate (think of the dialogue between cello and piano in the section un poco meno messo. Why do I think of Degas there? Then suddenly the puckish skitter of flute, piano and with a symbol clash we enter a world of slashing glissando and a strutting march, confident and cavalier. Can you imagine what it must have been like when Liszt crashed throug the final moments - rock star status ensured.
(Embarassed admission: All of the above, rather purple prose was written while listening to Stephen Hough's new recording of the A major piano concerto. Maybe not daring enough to replace Zimerman in my mind but still sensational. So good I am starting it again...)
Thu, Dec 8 2011, 8:36PM
#14
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
Does your 3 volumes have plenty of colour pictures or is it all text?
Unfortunately all the colour pictures are in my son's picture books! But Walker is not a particualrly hard read - difficult to read anything too tough with a toddler running riot around the apartment.
On a more serious note my one growing reservation is Walker's continual need to point out how inaccurate Liszt's previous biographers have been. I don't think he does this to brag about his own research skills but it does get a bit tiresome. Probably why he needed a third volume...
Sat, Dec 10 2011, 9:44AM
#15
RE: Liszt 200 - how was it for you?
The piano #2 and tunes - my group leader pointed to the bold opening of the #1 and said that there was no comparable phrase in the #2 (which has a quiet opening).
Embarrassment and Stephen Hough - I admit to checking my bank statement when listening to music at home but make up for it by attending concerts.
I might buy the Hough recording. I have the Zimerman and Berman but haven't pinned down a preference yet because the music is not familiar enough. I recently made comparisons with Glenn Gould and Murray Perahia playing the Goldberg Variations and Perahia won easily in the end, but it took time to digest the styles.
Walker and inaccuracies - I wonder if he criticises others in the battle for the 'undisputed authority' title? Jeremy Nicholas ('The Great Composers') labels Liszt as 'a mass of contradictions' - maybe that causes disputes.
Degas - would that be famous 'Ballet Class'?
Play a Liszt trasnscription before the real thing if you have time...
I will...actually, this is just the sort of development I was hoping for when signing up for the listening group - the ability for hear familiar music from a different perspective.
'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music'.
Aldous Huxley brainyquote.com