Pole dancer.

Mark, all the examples you mentioned for some of Panufnik's works are the premises, the intentions of the composer, not the outcome, the result. And we know where the best intentions do lead, don't we?

I don't care that much about the reasoning or the motivation of his music but rather the outcome and his works do not reveal any particular profundity or true spiritual achievement. I have his Piano Trio (on Acte Prealable), his Cello Concerto (on NMC) and I follow the CPO series of his Orchestral works (now on Vol.5). I found his outcome a decent effort to express his views musically and, in quite a few cases, his symphonic works sound less offensive than other contemporary "enfants terribles". So, in comparison, he may be considered as even "entertaining".

In other words, the man (and he is not the only one in the contemporary conundrum) fails to express what he is supposed to portray, at least to a considerable extent. Of course, if I have to take him seriously and try to necessarily trace the "miraculous icon of the Black Madonna...", I might find his music even boring and irrelevant. That's why I said it is a footnote of the Western Music. Even in his native land, they don't commemorate him enough and his influence, after his death, is fading away.

Parla

Not exactly, Hugh, but I can get a nutty listener with it.

Parla

Parla

Interesting that you argue that there is profundity in every piece that Haydn wrote, yet you care not for Panufnik's intentions, and argue that he fails to express what he claims to.

I was under the impression that you disparaged 'mere opinion', about which you have written thousands of words to point out to all of us the error of our ways. Yet your case against Panufnik is opinion. If I find profundity in his music that is also my opinion, but it is validated for me by what the composer so eloquently expresses in his words.

Why it is that you so constantly take issue with the views, ideas and words of other people is a mystery. On the Listening Project, you tell us that we shouldn't be listening to lesser known composers, we should be listening to Schubert's Forelle Quintet. You then tell us that the project is no more than disorientation, a hearing project, and then you take issue with Brumas over his comments re; ritual and mystery in Scelsi's Music. Your recent attempt to argue with Tagalie over the symphony shows that when you come up against somebody who really knows what they are talking about you simply trot out the same platitudes that you have always done.

If you so disapprove of the Listening Project, then a) stay off the thread and allow those of us who wish to participate to do so without constant white noise and b) start a thread off on Schubert's Florelle Quintet. It ain't exactly as difficult as creation cosmology to grasp that.

Time, as Tagalie says, to take a break...

Mark, if you find "profundity" in Panufnik, it is valid for you, by all means. I never doubted that. However, it doesn't seem to be the case in real musical terms. His music did not establish itself as truly great, profound or as a modern Classic. On the contrary, more people (including our excited Hugh) find his production output as accessible, fine and, sometimes, even entertaining music.

As for the rest of your post, let me decide for myself what I have to do and how. I know very well what I'm up to.

Parla

I think, dear Hugh, once more, over-egg the pudding, but, as always, we won't bother. We will enjoy it...

Parla

Hi Hugh!

How you getting on with Panufnik? Just had a listen on youtube to Sinfonia Sacra and I hope it grows on you. I really like this piece. The 2nd movement is a really good piece of orchestral writing. The icy beginning for strings is striking, and how he keeps the harmonic tension going with this simple Polish hymn tune is masterful. There is a return of the trumpet fanfare which opened the 1st movement right at the end overlaid on the hymn tune which is great. 

I've just been having a look at the series of CDs on Amazon of Panufnik Symphonic works with Borowicz. The only thing I would say about this series is that the volumes are a bit unbalanced in terms of how much symphony you get for your money. Thus volume 5 gives you symphonies 7 and 8, and on volume 4 you get three symphonies - 2, 3 and 10, whereas on volume 3  there's only one symphony which is Mistica no.6. Mind you there are lots of his other orchestral works included in this series though, and they're not just fillers-up.

As most of my Panufnik is on vinyl, I might invest in this series. The 4 CD's I have of Panufnik are also on Amazon - one is the violin and bassoon concertos on Conifer (incredibly that one brand new is now a staggering £47.73) one the Cello Concerto CD single with Rostropovitch/LSO, one the symphony 9 with piano concerto (£18 at top price now on Amazon) and one is the combination we talked about of symphonies 5 and 6 - Atherton/LSO. (I also have that on the original vinyl Decca Head 22). Talk about getting stuff when it comes out. I've had these 4 for a while. I don't think the budget would stretch to £47.73 for a single CD no matter how rare! 

Hugh if you're turning Polish you need to make yourself a sausage and white bean stew - fasolka po bretonsku, a Polish staple (you can even buy it ready made in Asda). I presume similar to Cassoulet hence the Bretonsku bit (Britanny). Grab yourself a Tylska Polish beer or whatever it's called which is also widely available - and very nice it is too. Some Polish sausages from Polish deli/mini-markets ain't my thing though...

Sorry not familiar with the other composer you mention.

Mark

Grazyna Bacewicz, interesting composer/performer. Are you sure you are really Polish Partsong.