Pole dancer.

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partsong
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RE: Pole dancer.

I'm disappointed Parla. I expected multiple recommendations of the same works by Bacewicz from your personal library, the one that includes nine different versions of Pergolesi's Stabat Mater, 6 different versions of The Rite of Spring, three different recent recordings of Korngold's String Sextet even, every pianist who has ever been recorded playing every 19th C chamber work, and every conductor who has ever held a baton conducting just about everything that's ever been written for orchestra. Not to mention an opera collection bigger than that needed to write The Rough Guide to Opera.

If you could possibly dig into this collection and come up with 6 of this by Bacewicz and 4 of this, 5 of that and 3 of that...

Of course Parla the deep intentions in Panufnik's music which you seem to struggle with are also a sign of Panufnik's integrity. The fact that you call such intentions pretexts is worrying. Still, at least we now that every note that Haydn wrote contained an underlying profundity apparently, and that it is not there in other composers who you personally dislike.

Bazza thanks for the comment. Schiller I am not Polish!

Mark

 

parla
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RE: Pole dancer.

Mark, since apparently Bacewicz seems some kind of "terra incognita" for you and our friend, I thought I had to answer only on the issue of whether she is Polish and to add that she is a much more solid composer than Panufnik, whose integrity has never been an issue. However, the quality of his music is a bit of a problem (by the way, I never said I "dislike" his music. On the contrary, I may find it at times even "pleasant", but not necessarily "profound", significant, solid).

Since you are interested for some commendable recordings of music by Bacewizc, take note of the following:

- The great pianist K. Zimerman has recorded for DG a superb CD with the Piano Sonata No. 2 along with the two Piano Quintets. A great recording of magnificent proportions.

- Chandos has recorded in two volumes the very interesting Violin Concertos series.

- Dux and Hyperion have recorded, in extremely fine recordings, the String Orchestral works. The Dux one is more idiomatic, evidently.

- Chandos has recorded his Violin Sonata No.3 along with some other Violin/Piano works and the Sonata no. 2 by Enescu(!).

- Dux has recorded the Violin Sonata No.4 along with the ones of Lutoslawsky and Szymanowsky (!), while the complete works for Violin and Piano can be found in a very solid performance, in a double CD on Hanssler, with Ewa Kupiac on Piano.

- Ewa Kupiac has recorded a quite impressive CD, again on Hanssler, with the major Piano works.

- For the String Quartets, there are two very impressive recordings of the superb 4th Quartet (both on SACD): one on Avie, with the Szymanowsky Quartet, along with String Quartets by Dvorak and Haydn(!) and an even better one, on the extremely good Polish label Bearton, with the Royal String Quartet, along with works by Szymanowsky and Moniuszko(!).

I hope you have some material to work with and to indulge in this very substantive Polish composer, whom the "Poles" admire and appreciate and recorded more than Panufnik.

Parla

Graham J
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RE: Pole dancer.

Thanks for the list of recommendations Parla. You often say how you dislike lists so it was bold of you to produce one! Bacewicz is another "Pole dancer" who I have heard of but never heard.

I like what I know of Panufnik's music and I share much of Mark's enthusiasm. It is interesting how you dismiss his music for lacking real greatness whereas Bacewicz is held in greater esteem and in your view produced far worthier music. Perhaps it is too early to judge Panufnic who died only 20 years ago. Music history has taught us that posterity judges who is truly great and who is not, so lets hope there is room for both when it comes to 20th century masters.

Certainly Poland has produced some fine composers in this era, not forgetting Gorecki and Lutoslawski.

Graham

Schiller Kant
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RE: Pole dancer.

No, you would be right to forget Gorecki. 

Graham J
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RE: Pole dancer.

Schiller, did the 3rd Symphony not move you? Is your heart made of stone? Try his Harpsichord Concerto, that'll get you dancing about.

Schiller Kant
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RE: Pole dancer.

Tough guys don't dance.

parla
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RE: Pole dancer.

The fact that Gorecki's Symphonie No.3 could be moving to most of us does not mean necessarily it is great music. It proved to be popular at a certain time. As for the Harpsichord Concerto, it is predominantly good entertainment for those interested. Can the rest of his output make him that significant?

As for the so called "list" of Bacewitz, I simply had to focus on the most interesting recordings of her works. Technically, you may call it a "list", but it is more than the usual personal one of "top fifty" randomly chosen items and this sort of stuff. If someone asks you, which works Beethoven composed in c sharp minor, do you provide merely a list or the appropriate requested information?

Parla

partsong
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RE: Pole dancer.

Parla, thanks for hopping on your Scoot-a-mart and traversing the length of your house - past the 2nd Viennese School room, the Russian masters' room, the Britten and Shostakovitch room, the opera wing, the great hall which is entirely made up of Classical Chamber Music - until you got to the Eastern European 20th C room. Thankfully there was enough room in the basket at the front of your moped to chuck all the Bacewicz in and lug it back to the computer. You may have to re-charge the battery though - some only do 16 miles.

I may consider exploring Bacewicz, but I have several (other) footnote composers from the listening project on my list, and also my dear Gorecki's Totus Tuus disc arrives soon.

Mark

 

Schiller Kant
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RE: Pole dancer.

When you next pass the toilet check on Gorecki. He's a bit of a lightweight so he should be floating on the top,  you may need to flush twice.

naupilus
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RE: Pole dancer.

Schiller Kant wrote:

When you next pass the toilet check on Gorecki. He's a bit of a lightweight so he should be floating on the top,  you may need to flush twice.

I am reminded of Anton Ego sometimes when reading how swiftly we dismiss somebody's labours:

"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet
enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to
our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and
to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face is that, in the
grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is more meaningful
than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic
truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the
new."

Of course, it is much better when Peter O'Toole speaks... that said, Gorecki has never been my cup of tea.

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Schiller Kant
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RE: Pole dancer.

.... tea is overated as well. 

parla
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RE: Pole dancer.

...except for some Chinese varieties of green tea. Sometimes, they're priceless.

I have to admit Gorecki, for all he might be worthy, failed to be my cup of (green) tea.

Parla

50milliarden
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RE: Pole dancer.

I consider Gorecki's 3rd symphony the worst piece of cr*p this side of Arvo Pärt.

It's an empty cardboard box in a soulful slavic wrapping. Unfortunately people with defective taste gobble it up and think it's representative for modern music.

naupilus
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RE: Pole dancer.

Schiller Kant wrote:

.... tea is overated as well. 

Context is everything... I remember once being offered mint tea after two days on the edge of the Sahara and it tasted just fine to me :-) And chai massala is also a fine brew. I will say though that in four years in Brazil I have yet to have a half decent cuppa.

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partsong
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RE: Pole dancer.

As to whether or not Gorecki is a 'lightweight t*rd', perhaps we should ask the originator of this thread, Hugh Jarsse. It would appear from his name that he knows a lot about the size and quality of such things!

Hugh, I was under the impression that you wanted to talk about Panufnik?