Proms 2013
Thu, Apr 18 2013, 11:16PM
Having studied the 2013 Proms programme I'm partly excited and partly disappointed. Lots and lots and lots of Wagner (7 complete operas, including the Ring, plus numerous smaller works) and hardly any Verdi (not a single opera, only smaller compositions).
Hardly balanced for the two anniversary composers. The Wagner will be fun, but on the other hand we did have a Ring a few years ago (admittedly, split into 4 years), and I would have gladly swapped some of the other Wagner operas for some Verdi. Is Wagner so much more popular, I wonder?
One day I'd love to see a complete Tosca at the Proms, that would also be fun!
Any other insights / views?
Fri, Apr 19 2013, 4:54PM
#2
RE: Proms 2013
The 3 M's: Vanity, Ego and Superficiality.
I'd happily trade 50 tickets for concerts by one of these guys for one single Barenboim performance, personally.
Fri, Apr 19 2013, 4:55PM
#3
RE: Proms 2013
That is too much Wagner for one Proms season ..... whoever is conducting.
Fri, Apr 19 2013, 5:55PM
#4
RE: Proms 2013
In my experience, Barenboim's never gets past the foreplay.
You've seen the La Scala Tristan?
Sat, Apr 20 2013, 3:23AM
#5
RE: Proms 2013
Since the talk moved to Barenboim (once more), let me associate myself with the very apt (to me as well) Adrian3's comment. I have all his Wagner recordings (apart from quite a few of his other orchestral and Opera recordings) and I have never felt anything close to the thrill of a Solti or a Janowski or even a Karajan. He is very good in the "foreplay" though and (to continue in this "Wieland Wagner's metaphor") he can be quite convincing in some occasional faked "orgasms".
In "Live" performances though, he can be much more convincing in imitating the truth, so that the audiences may respond with more enthusiasm.
Parla
Sat, Apr 20 2013, 2:19PM
#6
RE: Proms 2013
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Barenboim conducts any Verdi apart from the Requiem and "Otello" and no Puccini, Bellini or Donizetti. La Scala must have gone to him as a last resort after losing Muti.
Sat, Apr 20 2013, 6:39PM
#7
RE: Proms 2013
I assume the answer to my question is "No." Pity, but then people have obviously made up their minds regardless. The La Scala audience obvously loved it, but they're so easy to please. Pro reviewers too, but what do they know?
Sat, Apr 20 2013, 7:23PM
#8
RE: Proms 2013
I assume the answer to my question is "No." Pity, but then people have obviously made up their minds regardless. The La Scala audience obvously loved it, but they're so easy to please. Pro reviewers too, but what do they know?
I haven't seen the Scala Tristan with Barenboim, but went to La Scala frequently from mid- to end-1980s, the transition from Abbado to Muti. The quality of orchestra and productions took a free fall under Muti, but the critics and "society" audience loved it (we did have some true highlights like the 1987 Otello under Kleiber). Compared with the all-too-long Muti tenure, the Barenboim era is a definite improvement because they now invite capable conductors for guest appearances (something Muti had reduced to a minimum).
Don't listen to critics, most don't know much (there are a few exceptions).
Anyways, Barenboim or not, and getting back to the original topic, I think the Proms organisers this year went into "Wagner-overdrive", I don't understand what went into them. I like Wagner, but there is a limit...
Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:45AM
#9
RE: Proms 2013
..."but there is a limit"...called moderation, but, for Wagner, this is a very subtle thing, so the organisers took his music at face value. Besides, for the Proms, moderation is not a necessary value or virtue.
Parla
Sun, Apr 21 2013, 12:32PM
#10
RE: Proms 2013
"The quality of orchestra and productions took a free fall under Muti, but the critics and "society" audience loved it (we did have some true highlights like the 1987 Otello under Kleiber). Compared with the all-too-long Muti tenure, the Barenboim era is a definite improvement because they now invite capable conductors for guest appearances (something Muti had reduced to a minimum)."
Firstly, I can't believe, knowing his work well, that orchestral standards declined duuring Muti's tenure. Indeed, I would say he is a finer orchestral trainer than Abbado. As to the situation under Barenboim, if one looks at this season, one sees that he is doing a lot of Wagner whereas Verdi has been consigned to young, as yet unknown, Italians. One exception: Gergiev is conducting "Macbeth".
I am going off the subject, which is Wagner and [absence of] Verdi at the Proms. Verdi has had a raw deal especially as I myself find that I appreciate Verdi more and more with time and reserve Wagnerian hysteria for increasingly occasional, self-indulgent days.
Sun, Apr 21 2013, 12:26PM
#11
RE: Proms 2013
[/quote]
You've seen the La Scala Tristan?
[/quote]
Yes, but on TV. I was very impressed by Chéreau's production but am not in a position to judge the musical side because the sound of my TV is not hi-fi.
Sun, Apr 21 2013, 12:41PM
#12
RE: Proms 2013
As to the situation under Barenboim, if one looks at this season, one sees that he is doing a lot of Wagner whereas Verdi has been consigned to young, as yet unknown, Italians.
I had a look at the schedule the other day and this is just not true. Daniel Harding is doing Falstaff, Fabio Luisi is doing Don Carlo and Noseda is doing Aida. Hardly unknown Italians. (And, as you mention, Gerviev doing Macbeth). That sounds like a truly amazing season for Verdi lovers.
I know you've got a thing about Barenboim, Adrian, but misrepresenting the published schedule is hardly going to strengthen your case.
Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:58PM
#13
RE: Proms 2013
I stand corrected! I should have said that some are conducted by young unknowns. However, Barenboim is not a problem with me: I have quite a lot of his recordings and no longer listen to them. Actually, I think he is good, but that is not good enough when there are so many better conductors, dead or alive.
Sun, Apr 21 2013, 4:40PM
#14
RE: Proms 2013
You may well be right, Adrian. I don't have that many Barenboim recordings, so I don't really feel able to judge, but those I do have I haven't really taken to........
Sun, Apr 21 2013, 5:28PM
#15
RE: Proms 2013
Actually, Mista Donut, I am just about to try and sell the Barenboim Ring on ebay. I bought it a couple of years ago (after being misled by the reviews) and just couldn't stand it. Since then, it has (literally) been gathering dust on a bookcase. What do you reckon? Prime condition, full libretto with guide to leitmotifs, looks like new. Someone must want it for £20 or so.
Wieland Wagner is reported as saying that in Solti's Wagner (in the conductor's younger years) there was an orgasm in every bar. In my experience, Barenboim's never gets past the foreplay. On the other hand, I would have queued all night to hear Riccardo Muti conduct Verdi.
Adrian