Proms 2013
Mon, Apr 22 2013, 4:43AM
#2
RE: Proms 2013
I'm not the one to say whether the Proms is all about "surfeit" (I'm not British and I don't live in U.K.), but Wagner can be only at face value. For those who can afford his Work, it's pure bliss of the highest order.
As for Barenboim's Scala Tristan, one very good performance (if it can be considered as an overall success) cannot save the day and redeem his contestable reputation as conductor.
I'm with Jane on Barenboim's Ring. However, the first release of the separate boxes on Teldec were impressively produced and presented, even in the sound playback, so they could perform the trick. The reissue was a blatant cheap reproduction.
Harding, Luisi and Noseda might be household names but, still, they represent the sort of the peaks of the mediocrity of our times in the Classical Music development.
Parla
Mon, Apr 22 2013, 9:20AM
#3
RE: Proms 2013
...and we all know that Simone Young and Jaap van Zweden are much more than just mediocre, because they record in very detailed SACD-sound!
Mon, Apr 22 2013, 3:44PM
#4
RE: Proms 2013
I'm with Jane on Barenboim's Ring. However, the first release of the separate boxes on Teldec were impressively produced and presented, even in the sound playback, so they could perform the trick. The reissue was a blatant cheap reproduction.
I guess the music itself was the same...
Harding, Luisi and Noseda might be household names but, still, they represent the sort of the peaks of the mediocrity of our times in the Classical Music development.
I don't know Luisi and Noseda enough, but wouldn't at all call Harding mediocre, most certainly not.
Mon, Apr 22 2013, 5:37PM
#5
RE: Proms 2013
I'm not sure if I agree with the notion of too much Wagner, but I do think they didn't really need to go with the celebrity versions. What about the Opera North Ring (I am seeing Siegfried in June at Leeds Town Hall). If you read the Gramophone reviews, the Copenhagen Ring seems to do well, no doubt under the influence of Borgen!!
DSM
Mon, Apr 22 2013, 6:05PM
#6
RE: Proms 2013
Gannymede, when we're talking about recorded sound, there is no "music itself"; it's only the playback issue. The better the production, the closer to the "original tape" and true reproduction of the sound. Even the glorified "Ring" by Solti has quite different reissues with a variety of quality as for the actual playback sound of the "music itself".
Harding proved to be a bit better than Luisi and Noseda (both very fine conductors of today), but he still belongs to the mediocrity of today's development of the Classical Music. If you believe that Harding follows the steps of conductors with tradition, brilliance and true leadership of the Orchestras involved, it's fine with me but I cannot possibly see it. All three of them have minor recorded 'hits" and I cannot notice any major development in the places they have worked.
Likewise, Simone Young and Jaap van Zweden belong, to a considerable extent, to the same system. I just appreciate the cautious consistency and quality of work in the program (limited indeed) of the former and the strength of performances of the latter, in some of his more varied program of performances and recordings.
By the way, Luisi and Noseda have recorded successfully on SACD (for Sony and Chandos respectively), if that matters to you, Lilian. It does not to me, although it may help, sometimes substantially, in the final product.
Parla
Mon, Apr 22 2013, 8:14PM
#7
RE: Proms 2013
Gannymede, when we're talking about recorded sound, there is no "music itself"; it's only the playback issue. The better the production, the closer to the "original tape" and true reproduction of the sound. Even the glorified "Ring" by Solti has quite different reissues with a variety of quality as for the actual playback sound of the "music itself".
My mistake, bad choice of words. I meant the sound track, the recorded sound. I assumed they hadn't resampled the original sound track, so the sound itself should be the same in the original published version (whatever the rest of the package, booklet or not, etc.).
Harding proved to be a bit better than Luisi and Noseda (both very fine conductors of today), but he still belongs to the mediocrity of today's development of the Classical Music. If you believe that Harding follows the steps of conductors with tradition, brilliance and true leadership of the Orchestras involved, it's fine with me but I cannot possibly see it. All three of them have minor recorded 'hits" and I cannot notice any major development in the places they have worked.
Hmm, I don't agree, but let's not go down that route.
Tue, Apr 23 2013, 1:55AM
#8
RE: Proms 2013
Ganymede, I have noticed that among different reissues of the same recording, the "producers, engineers" and other personnel involved in the reissue intervene, in one or the other way, to create a new product which, sometimes, is better (expensive limited editions, SACD reissues etc.), sometimes is worse (budget reissues). Often, the differences are negligible. In the case of the Barenboim's Ring, the reissue (from Warner) was a cheap one, all the way.
I know your appreciation for Harding from previous threads and, believe me, I appreciate his art too. However, nowadays, the way Classical Music develops does not allow even great artists to grow in such a manner to shine all the way through. They confine themselves in executing their work as good as they can, but they cannot possibly create a new tradition of brilliance, of changing the shape of things to come. Even the best orchestras produce regular programs, middle of the road (quite often easily forgettable) recordings. Producers do not dare to take major risks either. Labels shrink.
The only field(s), where artists still can and dare to shine is the Instrumental and, consequently, Chamber Music, where individual soloists can create some major recordings and live performances. In Vocal music, we are happy to see some soloists and choral groups in good shape too, but all of them have less influence in the development compared to the very popular Orchestral and Opera ones.
I sincerely hope Harding may create something more monumental in his career, but I do not see how he may achieve something like that in the current state of affairs.
Parla
Tue, Apr 23 2013, 11:49PM
#9
RE: Proms 2013
Ganymede, I have noticed that among different reissues of the same recording, the "producers, engineers" and other personnel involved in the reissue intervene, in one or the other way, to create a new product which, sometimes, is better (expensive limited editions, SACD reissues etc.), sometimes is worse (budget reissues). Often, the differences are negligible. In the case of the Barenboim's Ring, the reissue (from Warner) was a cheap one, all the way.
Ok, I didn't realise they went through the effort of producing a "bad CD copy" of a previous release. I mean, a CD copy should be a digital 1:1 copy, unless they resample (which costs more than not doing it). Hmm, wicked industry.
I know your appreciation for Harding from previous threads and, believe me, I appreciate his art too. However, nowadays, the way Classical Music develops does not allow even great artists to grow in such a manner to shine all the way through. They confine themselves in executing their work as good as they can, but they cannot possibly create a new tradition of brilliance, of changing the shape of things to come. Even the best orchestras produce regular programs, middle of the road (quite often easily forgettable) recordings. Producers do not dare to take major risks either. Labels shrink.
I know exactly what you are alluding to, and I agree with the general point. Recordings have over the decades created a uniformity also in live performance that is sad and depressing - killing off music. Only few conductors, the truly great ones, have beat this trend, and of those currently alive and well one of the very very few I can think of is Harding.
Judging from his concerts I attended live and what is transmitted on radio, Harding definitely has his own character, he hasn't "homogenised". Only yesterday I listened to a recording of his recent performance with Menahem Pressler of Mozart KV 453 - absolutely exquisite conducting, highly sensitive phrasing which brings out the larger structure of the piece. I compared that to performances conducted by the likes of MacKerras and Davis, and there is no comparison, Harding is absolutely sublime. The same with Mozart KV 550 which I also heard recently.
He is an extraordinary conductor, watch out for him.
Wed, Apr 24 2013, 2:18AM
#10
RE: Proms 2013
Thanks for your kind post, Ganymede.
Harding should be an extraordinary conductor, as some more are out there, but he has to prove he can make the difference. He may create his own tradition; he has to leave his mark beyond the awkward development of the current scene of Classical Music. So far, he seems to be "a good guy" following the trend, although he can be, at times, "sublime" in Mozart and superb in Mahler.
However, we can only and always hope...
Parla
Regardless of opinions on Barenboim I do think this particular Tristan is one of those performances that create magic, Corriere della Sera noting that it recalled some of the fabled old great occasions at La Scala. Too bad you didn't catch it in hi-fi sound, Adrian. I've never heard that orchestra play with such finesse and refinement. Whether that's down to conductor or the occasion who knows. Certainly Tristan is right up his alley. How he'd do in, say, Nabucco, may be a whole different story and the loggioni won't be slow to tell him if he fluffs it.
As for Wagner at the Proms, I always thought sufeit was what the Proms, and Wagner, were all about.