Rattle Replacement
Fri, Jan 11 2013, 4:14PM
#2
RE: Rattle Replacement
I'm rather surprised that Rattle has announced his resignation a full five years in advance. Giving enough notice is one thing but five years of uncertainty seems rather a lot?
chris
Fri, Jan 11 2013, 4:52PM
#3
RE: Rattle Replacement
Anything less than five years makes it difficult to find a suitable replacement. Classical musicians normally work to schedules three or four years ahead. Concerts will already have been planned for 2016 or so; and contracts will take several years to unwind and allow candidates to move. There won't be that much uncertainty: the appointment will probably be made two or three years in advance, as with Rattle himself. It just makes him a bit of a lame duck in some respects.
Whoever it is, I just hope they record for someone better than EMI. Compared to bis or pentatone, for example, they are just second rate. Also be nice if they could get into the studio now and then: I think I am right in saying that all of Rattle's BPO recordings had been live (and in the bloody Philharmonie, as well).
Fri, Jan 11 2013, 4:57PM
#4
RE: Rattle Replacement
It just makes him a bit of a lame duck in some respects.
That's exactly what I was thinking. I don't think 5 years passed between Abbado's resignation and Rattle starting (In fact I thought Abbado's resignation was rather sudden). But perhaps I'm wrong. Time flies!
Chris
Fri, Jan 11 2013, 5:03PM
#5
RE: Rattle Replacement
Marin Alsop - for the BPO that would be radical
Fri, Jan 11 2013, 6:14PM
#6
RE: Rattle Replacement
Abbado's decision came as a shock, but he gave them several years to find someone. Rattle was appointed in 1999, but didn't start until 2002, meaning Abbado must have given them at least three - and probably more, in reality. This is how the BPO typically does things, I believe: everything long-term.
Incidentally, has Rattle been all that bad? The days of one single orchestra being able to produce definitive recording after definitive recording are over. It can't be done any more. There's just too much competition. Rattle has produced a reasonable batch with the BPO - some real triumphs (best Schubert 9 ever, for my money, very good Mahler, Strauss's Heldenleben), and some slightly more forgettable (mediocre Bruckner and Brahms, a Carmen no-one really liked). But which conductor out there is producing top recording after top recording? Abbado, possibly, but who else? Harnoncourt? Chailly? Vanska?
Fri, Jan 11 2013, 6:27PM
#7
RE: Rattle Replacement
I'm reminded of Beecham's old comment: "Why do we import so many third-rate foreign conductors when we have so many second-rate ones of our own?"
We are fortunate in having an enormously increased number of second-rate conductors now, but how many first-rate ones under seventy years old?
Chris
Fri, Jan 11 2013, 9:38PM
#8
RE: Rattle Replacement
Am I the only one who thinks Dudamel is more a showboater than a probing, seasoned and serious conductor?
Bill
No, you're not.
Fri, Jan 11 2013, 10:36PM
#9
RE: Rattle Replacement
Even knowing he will be 75 years "old" (come on !!!!) by 2018 , MARISS JANSONS would be great at the helm of the BPO. h.
Fri, Jan 11 2013, 11:09PM
#10
RE: Rattle Replacement
Great idea Hector. But if we are going for people who are statistically likely to be dead by the time the appointment comes round, why not go the whole hog and get Abbado back?
Fri, Jan 11 2013, 11:27PM
#11
RE: Rattle Replacement
Because Abbado is already to frail and, consequently, he can demonstrate now he may be mediocre too.
Speculation to speculation, we may see some quite surprising figure, after all. In any case, there are no young brilliant conductors alive and the old ones have saturated their repertory (Janssons, Jarvi, Gergiev etc. have done what they could do, more or less).
Anyway, BPO is no longer the superb orchestra it used to be. Rattle was not a bad conductor; he was (and still is) a flat conductor for BPO. He managed to deprive the orchestra of all the colours, individuality and brilliance of tone. In four and half years in Berlin, the only experience in the concerts under Rattle had been a hugely down to earth/flat performances of the most profound/divine and even sublime works. He managed something very notable, after all.
It is funny, but the much more underrated Hamburg Philharmoniker sounds much more glorious and with character under the very inspiring Simone Young, while the Leipziger one, under Blomstedt and Chailly (two truly great conductors) managed to maintain its magnificent sound and unique identity.
Parla
Fri, Jan 11 2013, 11:46PM
#12
RE: Rattle Replacement
I'm surprised to see so many negative comments about Rattle and the BPO. Rattle did amazing work in Birmingham, so much so that he got that top position in Berlin. Since then he's done a lot to make us Brits proud being at the helm of such a great German orchestra. He's introduced a lot of newer works and engaged new audiences without scaring away the older audience and he appears very popular over there, notably with the players.
I have many of his recordings with the BPO and most are superb and critically acclaimed. That big lush sound the orchastra is famed for swells up when needed and he is pretty good in smaller scale earlier works. There is depth and substance to many of his readings even though as with all conductors there are a few duds.
I think there is a lot of misty eyed nostaligia at play when people say that most of the decent conducters are in their seventies or eighties and there aren't any decent younger ones. Absolute rubbish! The BPO will hardly attract new audiences with that approach, much as I respect the names mentioned.
Jurowski would be a good bet.
Graham
Sat, Jan 12 2013, 12:18AM
#13
RE: Rattle Replacement
Don't judge, Graham, the situation in BPO under Rattle based on the recordings you have. I witnessed his live concerts and I can tell you they were dead flat. Recordings are "products" and they can be, to a great extent, as the producer wishes them. However, even his recordings have been praised mostly by the British press. In Berlin (and in Germany, in general), they simply tolerate him. Whenever Abbado comes every now and then in town, the excitement starts...and rightly so. At least, the few concerts of Abbado I attended there were so much more substantive, with character, vision and an apparent sense of profundity.
By the way, we are not looking for "decent" younger conductors, but for brilliant ones. Who are these young phenomenal conductors who can dazzle, move and inspire the audiences. Jurowski is as good as he can be and that is not enough. Not at all! Do we have other extraordinary, brilliant young conductors?
Parla
Sat, Jan 12 2013, 5:57AM
#14
RE: Rattle Replacement
I have a very high regard for Jaap van Zweden. An unlikely choice to be sure, but someone who I think would do very well.
Sat, Jan 12 2013, 1:17PM
#15
RE: Rattle Replacement
I'm fully with you, BobAlps. I strongly believe Jaap Van Zweden is a truly great conductor, but he is not "in the system" of media darlings. Many thanks for your courage to mention his name, even as a highly unlike candidate.
Parla
[whnew1 wrote:]
Am I the only one who thinks Dudamel is more a showboater than a probing, seasoned and serious conductor?
No, you are not. But people change with age, let's see if he is to become a sort of new conductor of the masses indeed.
However I think one should not underestimate his potential as a candidate for the post. He's young but got many things that may be of some interest to BPO managers. He's talented, has popular appeal, has charisma and is good at those marketing things. If this means to get BPO a little back to the status it had during Karajan era.........
What about Paavo Jarvi?