Rattle Replacement
Sat, Jan 12 2013, 12:17PM
#2
RE: Rattle Replacement
I'm fully with you, BobAlps. I strongly believe Jaap Van Zweden is a truly great conductor, but he is not "in the system" of media darlings. Many thanks for your courage to mention his name, even as a highly unlike candidate.
Parla
Sat, Jan 12 2013, 1:56PM
#3
RE: Rattle Replacement
By the way, we are not looking for "decent" younger conductors, but for brilliant ones. Who are these young phenomenal conductors who can dazzle, move and inspire the audiences. Jurowski is as good as he can be and that is not enough. Not at all! Do we have other extraordinary, brilliant young conductors?
I think Daniel Harding is the most brilliant young conductor these days, he has something to say. Every one of his concerts that I've gone to has been extraordinary.
Sat, Jan 12 2013, 2:12PM
#4
RE: Rattle Replacement
Anyway, BPO is no longer the superb orchestra it used to be. Rattle was not a bad conductor; he was (and still is) a flat conductor for BPO. He managed to deprive the orchestra of all the colours, individuality and brilliance of tone. In four and half years in Berlin, the only experience in the concerts under Rattle had been a hugely down to earth/flat performances of the most profound/divine and even sublime works. He managed something very notable, after all.
I agree. I have heard some very good (but not great) Proms performances, the discs are mostly a disappointment and flat. I don't know why - the BPO has been an outstanding orchestra and Rattle's CBSO recordings are so exciting! Recently I liked his BPO Carmen, that's an exception, but otherwise...
Sun, Jan 13 2013, 2:40AM
#5
RE: Rattle Replacement
I agree with Ganymede. Daniel Harding would be an excellent choice. He is dynamic, creative and can handle complex works with top-notch orchestras, as shown by his outstanding Mahler 10th with the VPO. And he'll be 43 in 2018, still young but not too young.
Sun, Jan 13 2013, 8:59AM
#6
RE: Rattle Replacement
I agree with Graham and Carlos about Rattle's CBSO years. But I remember those years hardly, if at all, for performances of Beethoven, Brahms and the 'standard' classics'. I suppose that when the Berlin Philharmonic appointed Rattle they did so to widen their repertory and transform their 'conservative' image. It will be interesting to see which way they will go when the make the new appointment. There must be a temptation to revert to a more conservative choice. Interesting that the Vienna Philharmonic has remained rather conservative and largely retained its tonal character. Only Chailly in Leipzig has managed to retain the tonal lustre of the Gewandhaus Orchestra whilst seriously widening their repertory. I suppose Chailly is too old (born 1953)?
Chris
Sun, Jan 13 2013, 9:32AM
#7
RE: Rattle Replacement
I like Harding, too. But I think the BPO will look for someone who has stuck with an orchestra and raised the standards there. Harding appears to be mainly a guest conductor. Looking at his record, he seems to spend most of his time travelling from one orchestra to the next. He does a spot with the Mahler Chamber Orchestra, then pops off to the LSO, then stops off in Vienna. Impressive stuff and several notable recordings, but in a way he is merely feeding off the standards which other people have already raised. (Who couldn't make a decent Mahler record with the VPO?) Can he stick in one place and put a minor orchestra on the map? As Rattle did with CBSO, or Vanska with the Lahti (and Minnesota) and Simone Young is currently doing in Hamburg?
Sun, Jan 13 2013, 11:58AM
#8
RE: Rattle Replacement
Jaap van Zweden? A truly great conductor? In my book that’s Barbirolli, Klemperer, Krips, Monteux, Reiner and Szell. From the ones I’ve heard in concert: Gatti (now thát would be some BPO-appointment), Giulini and Mackerras, perhaps Haitink and Jansons. But Jaap van Zweden?! He must have been a talented violinist to make it to Juilliard and become concertmaster of the RCO at a young age, but as such he was hardly in the same league as Liberman, Krebbers and Olof, let alone Staryk. As for his conducting: I find his recordings completely clinical and thus lacking in life, whereas in the concert hall I really dislike his in-your-face music making, compared to which Solti was a master of intimacy…
Sun, Jan 13 2013, 12:18PM
#9
RE: Rattle Replacement
The music-making I've seen on the Berlin Philharmonic's Digital Concert Hall suggests (visually and aurally) a very different story from some of the less enthusiastic comments here. The orchestra seems far from disengaged or out-of-sympathy with Rattle: quite the opposite.
Off the top of my head two outstanding projects Rattle participated in during his tenure: the complete Sibelius cycle a year or two back (I'd rather have had a CD issue of this than the Brahms symphonies, but no matter), the music having been largely unplayed since Karajan's day; and the very moving semi-staged St Matthew Passion.
As to successors, I don't see why Chailly wouldn't be viable (and interesting); how - for some slightly less predictable suggestions - about Andris Nelsons, or Semyon Bychkov, or Vasily Petrenko, or Vladimir Jurowski?
Sun, Jan 13 2013, 12:56PM
#10
RE: Rattle Replacement
Don't worry about parla, lilianruhe. If you bothered to contradict all the ridiculous things he says, you wouldn't have the time to do anything else. (A lot of his stuff comes from wikipedia anyway..........)
Sun, Jan 13 2013, 5:30PM
#11
RE: Rattle Replacement
I note that contributors to this topic include John Gardiner and Jane Eliot Gardiner. I suspect at least one of these is a pseudonym, but does Jiggy get everywhere?
Sun, Jan 13 2013, 5:32PM
#12
RE: Rattle Replacement
I like Harding, too. But I think the BPO will look for someone who has stuck with an orchestra and raised the standards there. Harding appears to be mainly a guest conductor.
He's chief conductor of the Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra since 2007 and has done some outstanding work with them. Not to speak of his affilliations with Norrköpings Symphony Orchestra, Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen (both 1997-2003), with the LSO of course and Mahler Chamber Orchestra. Plus many guest engagements. Pretty impressive, especially for the age. But the really exciting thing is that he doesn't just repeat what others have done before him, he finds something new in every piece and has an outstanding ability to develop the orchestral sound.
Sun, Jan 13 2013, 6:23PM
#13
RE: Rattle Replacement
Fair enough, ganymede. I bow to your superior expertise. As I said, I really like him, too, and you're right about the fact that he finds new things in every piece.
Sun, Jan 13 2013, 6:34PM
#14
RE: Rattle Replacement
Fair enough, ganymede. I bow to your superior expertise. As I said, I really like him, too, and you're right about the fact that he finds new things in every piece.
But of course our wishful thinking doesn't mean much with respect to who they will choose at the end...
I still think they might go for Thielemann, not my favourite by far, but maybe what they want...
Sun, Jan 13 2013, 6:46PM
#15
RE: Rattle Replacement
Daniele Gatti??
rattle replacement:or, the Fort-Da thread
try to keep up!