Removed threads.
Some of you may have noticed the removal of a couple of threads (firstly 'Collective action', then 'Witch Hunt'). Having had the first of these brought to my attention, I started at the end and worked backwards, and three pages of posts further on hadn't encountered anything about music. I'm sure you'll all support us in our aim to make the Forum a welcoming environment for members old and new, and this something best achieved, I feel, if we keep the focus of the discussion on music.
Thank you for your understanding,
Martin
Editor, Gramophone
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I think that is a bit over-simplistic, Martin. (Perhaps you should have started at the beginning, rather than the end, to understand the underyling rationale.) Most of us want to talk about music; that is why we are here. But many of us - a significant majority of regular posters, I believe - thought that at least one of these threads was necessary in order to deal with a very real, and very destructive, problem. Countless members have left this site in sheer frustration as a result; it was one of the reasons why only a handful of people ever take part in the discussions. Look back through old threads and you will see member after member after member migrating to other sites and generally giving the same reason.
I understand that the whole business of "trolls" is a tricky area, but unless you can find a more active and more sensitive way to moderate this forum, the same old problem will keep coming back and back. If you were at all familiar with this forum, in fact, you would see that the same debate crops up every few months or so.
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Thank you for your reply, and sorry if my approach may have felt heavy-handed or over-simplistic. I'm generally happy to leave the forum community to self-regulate as much as possible, but it felt to me that the thread in question was dominating the tone and atmosphere of the entire Forum, and wasn't achieving anything further in addressing its initial aims. I could have just drawn a line under what was already there of course - another approach to moderation - but while the discussion is no longer online, it was still had by those involved. As to the important point about what to do when a certain poster or thread is felt to be causing problems, the best thing to do is email us at gramophone@haymarket.com - where will then take appropriate action.
Martin
Editor, Gramophone
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Jane, you really need to give up your self appointed role as Policeman of this forum. Martin is more than capable of moderating the situation. You also need to stop refering to people you don't agree with as trolls, it is a heavy handed and over simplistic approach.
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Thank you for the prompt reply, Martin. I certainly understand why you removed the thread and it may well have been the right thing to do.
As to problem posters, I suspect there isn't really a lot that can be done - not, anyway, without infringing the important liberties we all need in discussion. It is easy to ask for "better" moderation (as I, myself, have just done!), but it is not obvious what that would amount to in practice.
Anyway, we shall have to see.........but thank you again for your consideration.
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As to problem posters, I suspect there isn't really a lot that can be done - not, anyway, without infringing the important liberties we all need in discussion. It is easy to ask for "better" moderation (as I, myself, have just done!), but it is not obvious what that would amount to in practice.
What better moderation amounts to in practice Jane, is that YOUR thread was removed. You complain about the lack of moderation and then when your thread is removed you complain about 'insensative' moderation. It seems you like rules but not when they apply to you.
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Martin,
I too am one of those former forum dwellers who felt unable to continue when Dr Brodsky was around and, like Jane, I find your response to this matter unsatisfactory. It's now abundantly clear that Dr Brodsky, Parla, Schiller Kant et al are one and the same - a troll who has delibrately set out the ruin the forum.
Look back at how the forum was 18 months ago and you'll see what a thriving community it was. I stopped posting around the time Dr Brodsky's racist, sexist and boorish behaviour crossed the line into almost daily insults. As I said at the time, unless Dr Brodsky was kicked off the forum, there was no forum. He went away, but clearly he's back under various different guises: same crass comments, same behaviour designed to needle, upset and goad. And many of us who wanted to, as you put it, focus on music have simply gone elsewhere.
I care about Gramophone and would like to come back, as I'm sure many others would. But who in their right mind would want to subject themselves to the stream of endless abuse emanating from Parla/Brodsky et al? Doesn't sound much like fun to me.
With best wishes, Simon
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. It's now abundantly clear that Parla, Schiller Kant et al are one and the same - a troll who has delibrately set out the ruin the forum.
With best wishes, Simon
I don't think for one minute that anyone really believes that Parla and I are the same person. We have disagreed many times on these boards but have always ended our argument peacefully and never once stamped our feet and said 'if that person isn't removed I am leaving'. It seems far too many people want a forum that only accounts for their viewpoint, not a public forum at all.
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I fear this thread is in danger of turning into exactly the sort of thread I was trying to avoid! But it is raising some important points. I fully appreciate the concern about problematic posts being off-putting to users – though I'd also point out that the thread under discussion was proving equally off-putting to users (we had received feedback to this effect), having created an environment that people felt uncomfortable being part of.
Looking at wider principles of moderation, it's not possible - or desirable - to moderate a forum by constant vigilence of everything written. It is, however, possible to moderate it by being alerted to problematic posts and posters as and when they happen. In the past we have removed posts and banned users, and will continue to do so on a case-by-case basis. Please use the email address given to report concerns as and when they rise, and we will address them and take action where necessary. The steps I have taken are not about granting victory to any particuarly user - we do, and will, take seriously, any complaints.
Martin
Editor, Gramophone
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Glad I am not the only one to have spotted that. What can be more pathetic than a troll arguing with itself?
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Glad I am not the only one to have spotted that. What can be more pathetic than a troll arguing with itself?
It won't do any good, but Parla is not me and I am not Parla. As for what can be more pathetic, I think you've answered your own question 'bazza', the constant labelling of people who disagree with you as trolls and the constant name calling from group of people who really don't want to engage in a public forum and would be far happier just staring in the mirror at themselves.
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I think Martin was right to remove
threads dedicated to knocking other contributors. However, it does
seem to me that the problems we are getting are not nearly as bad as
those on many other forums, where abuse seems to be the game of the
day after only a few postings. The majority of comments in this forum
are made with the music in mind and since we all have our own, often
strong, opinions, someone is bound to get upset.
We are all intelligent, knowledgeable
people and we recognise whether a contribution is genuine or not, so
why not just ignore those and reply to those comments that are of
interest. Folks whose comments are routinely ignored will either go
away or adapt. Either way, the forum benefits.
I really think that the most important
mission of these forums, and our top priority, should be to expand
the interest in classical music, because without it, Gramophone
magazine will eventually cease to exist and a lot more else besides.
Nothing is more encouraging than a constructive, courteous and
informative exchange of views, which most folks here are
contributing. Nothing is more discouraging than public quarreling,
whatever the cause.
The last thing we want is for this
forum to disappear. Life is too short - why not utilise our senses of
humour for a change?
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This forum would be a better place without the crude, crass behavior of Dr. Brodsky/Shiller/Uber Alice/etc. I've stayed away because of him/it.
As for Parla, he means no real harm. He's simply a pretentious egoist. He can be ignored. That other character, Brodsky, is what makes this place truly toxic.
This Forum has been mentioned elsewhere on the internet. It does not have a good reputation. In the time I've been reading through this forum, I've seen so many people leave, never to come back. At present, participation is only by a few individuals. Not having that Brodsky character around could only make things better by attacting new participants and bringing back people that used to participate. However, being free of him and/or his crude, churlish behavior is most likely not in the cards for this forum, so participation will never be what it truly could.
Plum
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More like a player sending himself off because someone who tackled him was not.
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Ladies, Gentlemen,
How about trying to avoid any red cards. Let's try to keep all the players on tghe field with a 'gentle truce'. After all, is not music 'the food of love'?
Let's play on!
Chris
Chris A.Gnostic
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Yes, well done Martin, music should win the day.