Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Sun, Nov 25 2012, 4:28PM
#2
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Chris, Tagalie et al...
The Missa Trahe me post te and motet are very appealing. The alleluias at the end of the motet are really something beautiful.
A joyful mass methought. The Sanctus and Benedictus particular highlights, though it's all good - well the last three movements really with the Agnus Dei.
Great purity from the choir of Westminster Cathedral too.
Mark
PS Though not a Requiem, I listened yesterday to Maxwell Davies' Missa Parvula for upper unison voices and organ also on Hyperion. Tagalie if that's Max I might become a convert! It's astonishingly beautiful, entirely dependent of course on flowing melody, very sensitively written for the boy's voices and with some sparse organ accompaniment. He manages to draw out a few darker colours as well, not unreminiscent of Brittens' Missa Brevis. Recommended.
Hey there Mark! Just got back from 3 weeks in Sicily doing full justice, you'll be happy to know, to the pizzas (and piazzas) of that wonderful part of the world. Before going, I loaded up my Sandisk with Victoria and found that what amazes me most about this composer is his range. From melodic lightness to intricate polyphony to joy to throat-catching grief and, to echo Chris's comment, much intensity. He really is my 'find' of the past few years, a treasure trove of great music.
As for Max, I have that Hyperion cd of his choral music and much enjoy it. He's mellowed a little over the years (to his and our advantage, I believe) and late Max is rather more accessible. His stuff is generally quite spare and stern in a kind of Sibelius way, which for me at least results in rather astringent chamber music, 'bed-of-nails' listening. The symphonies offer more colour (without ever coming within a million miles of someone like, say, Dutilleux) and are therefore easier to take. Over the years I've found their rewards continue to unfold.
Back to requiems. Without ploughing through this whole thread I don't believe anyone has mentioned Ligeti. His requiem, used by Kubrick in 2001, brings to mind that old saw about Rossini's William Tell overture and the Lone Ranger: an intellectual is someone who can listen to Ligeti's Requiem without thinking of neanderthals.
Sun, Nov 25 2012, 5:17PM
#3
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Hi Tagalie! Now I'm very envious about Sicily - never been as yet. But any country that can make a wonderful pasta dish from tomatoes, anchovies, raisins, pine nuts, a dash of puree and penne knows what it's doing with the wonderful Cucina Povina. Give me rustic peasant dishes rather than fine dining anyday! Hope you had a glorious time.
The only Max symphony I have is on Unicorn cassette; the 1962 Sinfonia coupled with the Sinfonia Concertante. Decent pieces, but I remember you recommending the 5th of his proper symphonies. Time I explored...
The Ligeti Requiem...that was the piece that really turned me on to Ligeti. I was fascinated by the comment in a newspaper concert review way back in I think 84 which spoke of 'soft, starry clusters', and I thought that sounded wonderfully new for a Requiem. It just so happened that a few days later in London I came across it in a great little record shop at the time called Caruso and Co. in Bloomsbury - it's on Wergo with Lontano and Continuum - Wer 60045 'Academie Charles Cros Grand Prix du Disque - forces conducted by Gielen. The piece Lontano knocked me out as well, and from there I collected quite a bit of Ligeti.
(There used to be back in the 80's Tagalie a group of classical shops within spitting distance of each other in London, as besides Caruso there was Harold Moore in Soho, still there thankfully, and Tower Records in Picadilly was very impressive in its upstairs classical section. There was also the classical discount shop as well. Nowadays there is as I say still Harold Moore and the HMV on Oxford Street. It was amazing at the time - four stores near each other. At least we have mail order or should I say e-mail order now!)
Last time I went to Italy was a few years ago to Jesolo, and exploring the back streets of Venice I found some rare Penderecki on vinyl in a record shop...
Mark
Sun, Nov 25 2012, 6:02PM
#4
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Mark, that's the Ligeti I have, the one on Wergo with a rather spacey cover. Yes, Harold Moores, I shopped there years ago and I recall seeing Marshall's in Manchester mentioned elsewhere on this site, another favourite store. Internet purchasing is certainly more convenient but I do miss that thrill of finding some long-sought disc in a store rack. Towers in San Francisco was an aladdin's cave when I first went there 30 years ago. Between iternet purchasing and downloading options, I'm afraid the days of the record store are numbered.
Totally agree re. rustic dishes versus 'fine dining', and particularly with Italian cooking. Over the years, I've had so many indifferent experiences in so-called 'fine dining' venues in Italy. Nearly all my memorable meals have come from unpretentious - often lunchtime - holes-in-the-wall.
By the way, and back to choral music, if you're a Penderecki fan, what do you think of Utrenja (also used by Kubrick, coincidentally) and the Polish Requiem (a nostalgic retrospective on lovingly-tended floors and furniture?)?
Sun, Nov 25 2012, 8:34PM
#5
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Now you've got me there Tagalie on those two Penderecki choral works, because here's what I've got in terms of his choral oeuvre:
St. Luke's Passion boxed set Phillips vinyl - Cracow Philharmonia - Henryk Czyz
St. Luke's Passion again on Naxos CD - Warsaw National Philharmonic Choir and orchestra - Antoni Wit
Magnificat - Peter Lagger, Bass and and various forces conducted by the composer on EMI vinyl (that was one of the records I found in Venice)
Penderecki gala concert on SONY CD - (sixtieth Birthday Gala concert) where besides some chamber works there are performances of Benedicamus Domino, Song of Cherubim and the Lacrimosa from the Polish Requiem, conducted by the composer -Sinfonia Varsovia - Warsaw National Philharmonic Choir)
AND a real gem - Complete sacred works for chorus a cappella - FINLANDIA CD - Tapiola Chamber Choir - Juiha Kuivanen
That last CD is wonderful - it includes the Stabat Mater from the passion and various other short works with the Benedicamus Domino and Song of Cherubim again. This disc has really made me realise that he does have something to say - it's sombre and I can't quite put my finger on how/why!
So I'm ashamed to say it but you've mentioned the two works I'm lacking in full! Any particular recs?
On the food note again - Jamie's book on Italy where he travelled around in a camper van collecting authentic recipes from the locals is really good and Cucina Povina alright! I believe there is now another kind of eaterie in Italy besides the Ristorante and Trattoria called the Osteria where you get the small family run good home cooking enterprise. And as Victoria Wood said about English cafes - they can put as many tables and chairs out as they like it'll never be Tuscany!)
(I left teaching two years ago and opened a deli shop!!! So if you saw any Castiglioni pasta in Sicily I have hundreds of boxes left! Now doing foodie markets instead and some supply teaching - so while you've been in sunny Sicily I've been on a teaching placement ongoing in rainy Hebden Bridge in Yorkshire - actually featured on Sky last year due to flooding. Now which famous dramatist said something about music and food?)
By the way Tagalie - I also have Ligeti's Lux Aeterna with 2nd string quartet (La Salle performance) and a couple of organ works on DG vinyl - it still has the Caruso and Co. price sticker on as most of mine from that shop do.
Gotta go - back in a couple of days.
Mark
Sun, Nov 25 2012, 10:39PM
#6
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Mark, Tagalie, the Ligeti's Requiem was mentioned by frostwalrus at post #2, on 6/6, but without further comments; only as a recommendation. It is indeed a masterwork, in this field, from the quite a few Requiems of the 20th century. There is a very fine, a bit glossy but also refined, recording on Teldec with BPO under Jonathan Nott. Brilliant, if not too idiomatic. I'm not sure how available is by now, though.
Chris, The Requiem by Morales is a very interesting work from the Spanish tradition. I have the McCreesh recording, on Archiv, and it works quite well. Very lucid and clean recording, excellent performances.
Parla
Mon, Nov 26 2012, 7:28PM
#7
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Thanks Parla!
Tagalie I have just ordered the Polish Requiem on Naxos with Warsaw Phil/Wit.
Forgot to mention - I also have on vinyl the Te Deum and Lacrimosa - Polish Radio Chorus/Orchestra of Krakow/composer conducting - EMI.
I think that was the choral work where he returned to more traditional methods of composing after the big choral works of the Passion, Utrenja and the Magnificat from the 60's and 70's. When I said above there was something sombre in his choral music I meant of course in his more recent stuff.
Mark
Mon, Nov 26 2012, 9:08PM
#8
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Tagalie I have just ordered the Polish Requiem on Naxos with Warsaw Phil/Wit.
I'm interested to hear what you think of it Mark. I asked about it and Utrenja because I was curious as to how you'd rate them. I had Utrenja for years, taped from an lp I got from the library that was so warped it was almost unplayable and gave a hilarious wow to the long-held choral notes at the start. That was Markowski and the Warsaw Phil. More recently I bought the Wit version on Naxos. Doesn't sound quite the same without the wow. A fine performance, quite different from my old version. The Polish Requiem I took out of the library 6 months ago and didn't like it. Rather monochromatic, I thought. But I go hot and cold on Penderecki.
That old Markowski always recalls a review of the work, either in the Penguin Guide or Gramophone, I can't recall which. The reviewer noted that the impact of the work diminishes 'demonstrably' on repeated hearings. That 'demonstrably' always fascinated me. How does one arrive at that conclusion? My scientific friends would insist you'd have to have a two groups of people, one subject to repeated listenings of Utrenja at defined intervals the other allowed to hear it only once, both groups wired to heart monitors and subject to brain scans, both in carefully controlled environments. Or something like that. Rather recalls Alex in Clockwork Orange.
I take my hat off to you Mark, re. the deli business. I've twice been involved in start-up businesses and it was a ton of fun but I was using someone else's money, which isn't in the same league as putting your own cash on the line. Good for you, regardless of the outcome. And good luck with the fill-in teaching. My sister teaches in Lincolnshire and never loses an opportunity to tell me what a tough life she leads.
Tue, Nov 27 2012, 1:14PM
#9
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Thanks Tagalie - I'll get back to you on the Penderecki. And thanks for getting us back on track with the Ligeti and Penderecki Requiems.
I suppose there is a connection between Renaissance and Ligeti - that connection of course being polyphony. Ligeti's hallmark is his micro-polyphony. The feeling I got from the wonderful book Ligeti in conversation as well is that he basically saw two types of sound mass in his music - the 'static' and the 'wildly gesticulating' I think were the terms he used.
His sense of humour being what it was, he often blurred the distinctions between the two, so what appears to be static speeded up (a musical oxymoron) becomes wild, and the gesticulatory speeded up can appear to be static (likewise a musical oxymoron!)
One thing that does impress me about Ligeti from the couple of scores I have is just how finely and precisely notated his music was - you couldn't find a more polar opposite to chance and aleatory.
He did flirt a little with graphic - Volumina for organ being a case in point...
Mark
Sat, Dec 1 2012, 3:20PM
#10
RE: Zimmermann
Hi DST!
Sadly can't make tonight's concert of Ecclesiastical Action, but eagerly await reviews.
I have however just ordered from Amazon the Requiem for a Young Poet, Bryn-Julson et al 1986 recording on Wergo. It's the Bertini one you mentioned on page 1 - a little pricy mind for a single CD.
(Am also tempted by the CD of 4 early orchestral works including Canto di Sperana, but have also just ordered a William Mathias choral CD as well. Together with Penderecki Requiem that's three ordered in a week! Must slow down!)
Mark
Sat, Dec 1 2012, 6:15PM
#11
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Mark (and DST possibly), since you are pretty much on the 20th century Requiems and music in general, you may try Herman Koppel's Requiem for solo voice, chorus and orchestra (it exists on Danacord, in a live recording of 1968, in a double CD along with some Orchestral works).
This much neglected, if not forgotten and even underrated, Danish composer (which, however, is considered as the heir of Nielsen and one of the most significant in the 20th century), came to fore in another thread. So, I checked his discography (I happened to have only a single CD on his Chamber Music and one with the Oratorio "Moses") and found out he composed one Requiem too. Apparently, he was quite prolific, a quite good pianist and symphonic composer. Despite he is not my cup of tea (the two CDs I have are middle of the road works, if not a bit weak), he can be possibly yours.
Parla
Sat, Dec 1 2012, 8:20PM
#12
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Thanks Parla. I've put your suggestion of Nott/BPO Ligeti Requiem on Teldec on my list as well. Such a great piece deserves a 2nd recording in my collection! (Must have a listen to that Koppel symphony over on the other thread). Tomorrow Sunday it's Penderecki Polish Requiem...
Mark
Sat, Dec 8 2012, 2:40PM
#13
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Has the Stravinsky Requiem Canticles already been mentioned? Beautiful blend of his own idiosyncratic musical language and serial influences. Absolutely gorgeous!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=668QWMK-maQ
Personally, I love Michel Chion's requiem. Although probably not up to a lot of people's ally, this is one of the seminal works of the musique concrète tradition, and essential listening for anyone who wants to discover this kind of music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4XfD3yrYHI
Sat, Dec 8 2012, 6:25PM
#14
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Always on the edge of the Classical realm, Brumas, but you're right at least for Stravinsky. Chion's Requiem is at the very edge of the matter, but I agree with yout point that it is "essential" for that kind of music...thing...
Parla
Sun, Dec 9 2012, 3:20PM
#15
RE: Requiem: hundreds ways to sing it in the centuries
Actually I would not consider Stravinsky to be that close to the edge of the classical realm... It is true for the Chion piece, but the reason I mentioned him is that most of the requiems of the core repertoire have already been mentioned here.
The supreme expression of the requiem however, is and remains the Mozart/Süssmayr as far as I'm concerned.
Sorry duplicate entry deleted.
Chris A.Gnostic