Searching for God in Classical Music

So, after 46 inputs in the Post, we will end up to an aswer of : As you Like It! The triumph of the (human) spirit! And how convenient!

Two things Troyen1 :

I'm not the one who refuses to be persuaded, but the one who try to find the common thread that unite us all, so that we can all call a music great, despite our different approaches and perceptions. Personally, I don't disagree with anyone of you, who as a nonbeliever (or anything relative), cannot see anything "divine" (or anything relative) in music. On the contrary, what I'm trying to say all the time, in so many different ways, is that we all see the same thing, but we call it with different names. In any case, the Truth is one, the riddles might be three or more. So is Love, etc (Turandot ?). Bliss's view is simplistic indeed and address again how and why we enjoy the music and not - simply - if we found God in music. This question in this Post implies that there is a perception of the notion of what we may call as God and, in this way, if we find the features and attributes of it in music. My interventions try to answer only that. By the way, I don't consider myself a true believer and, definitely, I don't practice any religion. I lead a very practical contemporary life. However, I refuse to dismiss completely a notion of a word, which invented by Man (of course) and exists in every civilisation, language, Arts, etc . I treat in the same way  abstract notions, such as Faith, Hope, Love, Good, Justice and so on. All of them defy the words and, despite many efforts for a common definition, remain in abstracto, since none wants and can confine them in a definition. However, our perception give them some features, attributes etc, so that we may communicate in a safe (rather rarely) way among us. I hope you have not dismiss all these notions too...

I might be the only individual in this Post who persists in the "quest", but, in terms of what I say, I think you may find quite a few things in the inputs of the initiator (archduke55), Micos69, Richard33, Daniel_Marcel and, recently, Aligator Dumbarton . What I mentioned in my interventions, I can assure you, is not the product of my personal quest to music only, but, mostly, what came as the outcome of a long relationship with people in music (and not only in classical), Arts, Science and Religion. All you have seen in my interventions are mostly quotes (or elaborated forms of them) from the different very experienced, wise people in the business from various places of the globe. I personally produce, whenever it is feasible (sponshorwise), certain concerts of Chamber Music, at local level. As a (humble) producer, I work extensively with the musicians, composers, arrangers, etc. So, I may be in a position to confirm that ther is a common thread, if you don't stick to the convenience of your perception and the prerogative of your subjectivity.

Anyway, I think you will never be convinced that we don't belong to various groups, based on our beliefs, etc., but we are in the same very small boat of this discriminating minority, which can appreciate this wonderful (literally full of wonders) music.

Let's see how far this Post will go. In the meantime, let's listen to Ellington's "In my Solitude", in our solitude.

Parla

From somebody who thought my comment on the devil having the best tunes was a reference to the Danse Macabre (the devil it was) one tires of your back pedalling: is God in every note of great music or isn't he? Was this a metaphor for divinity?

If God exists he certainly needs a sense of humour (some say that nobody without a sense of humour could have created the human race).

Also, I find that when I'm in a hole, which is not very often, it is better to stop digging.

As a college English professor, I tell my students that ALL works of literature (and, by extension, all works of art) are essentially religious in nature, because they are by definition attempts to find or depict some meaning -- ior lack of it -- inherent in existence. Since I'm a college professor, they usually let me get away with that.

For me personally, music gets me closer to the presence of the divine, however you may conceive of It/Her/Him, than any other experience except being out in the natural world. Following is a selective list that tries not to repeat other works already mentioned here:

1. virtually anything by Delius, but esp. the Florida Suite 1st movement and the Irmelin Prelude

2. Mahler's 1st, 1st movement

3. Gibbons' "O clap your hands"

4. any of Haydn's late masses

5. Biber's Mystery sonatas, esp. no 14

The Big Kahuna for me is Bach's Mass in B Minor. In every note of every separate section, but most inarguably in the concluding "Dona Nobis Pacem" where the search is concluded and we are in The Presence.

It is with such sophistry - linking words like "religious" and "divine" to a search for "meaning" in art - that superstition seeks for some rational basis. 

Being moved by art proves nothing more than that one is moved by art. 

The more human knowledge shrinks the realm of religion's writ, the greater the effort it makes to shift it into areas such as the awe and wonder found in man's creativity or nature's beauty, be it a sunset or a symphony.  It is mankind's refusal to grow up, and phrases like the title of this thread reveal it as increasingly desperate and pathetic. 

It's a sad comment on our education system that your students "usually let you get away with it".

Vic.

I seek to prove nothing.

I am talking about the kind of obfuscation you use to try to bring some sort of spurious legitimacy to irrationality.

Or to put it another way, I cannot engage with mumbo-jumbo.

Vic.

Sorry, Parla.   I can make no sense of your argument here.  Perhaps the limitation is mine.

Give me an iota of proof that there is a god to be found in classical music or anywhere else, and we have something to discuss.  As I say earlier, metaphor I can get my head around, but the vague and obscure terms you seem to me to be using to justify your position, is, I am afraid (and mean no disrespect to your sincerity here) mumbo-jumbo in my book.

Vic.

Many years ago I was visited by a minister who was concerned about my non-attendance at church. I was disillusioned at the time and told him that I saw inspiration from God in other ways. I played music from the film soundtrack of The Greatest Story Ever Told written by Alfred Newman. The introduction was also the Introit of Verdi's Requiem. He got my drift.