Simple question ?
Thu, Jan 19 2012, 11:13PM
What, in your humble opinions, would you consider to be Beethoven's greatest masterpiece?
...and why
Fri, Jan 20 2012, 12:41AM
#2
RE: Simple question ?
I won't criticize this kind of question 'cause everybody knows how unfeasible it is to give a proper answer to it.
I got the idea and as a passtime I will play: torn between Op. 123 - Missa Solemnis and Op. 132 - String Quartet n. 15 in A minor, but I will choose, considering the work dimensions and relevance, the former: Missa Solemnis it is. But hey, in Beethoven writings there is nothing like that HOLY SONG in Op. 132!
Fri, Jan 20 2012, 2:16AM
#3
RE: Simple question ?
Frank, despite your low "post count" aren't you already a long-standing member of this site? More than I am at any rate.
Anyway, to answer your question, it's the 9th Symphony.
Fri, Jan 20 2012, 8:34AM
#4
RE: Simple question ?
Silly quwestion, but difficult to resist the temptation to answer.
Symphony no 7 or the Op 131 string quartet in C♯ minor.
Or piano concerto no 4.
I could go on.
Fri, Jan 20 2012, 10:33AM
#5
RE: Simple question ?
Depends which way the wind's blowing. Today it's Missa Solemnis having last night watched the new dvd of John Nelson, Chamber Orchestra of Europe, etc, bought after review in Gramophone. To me, absolutely tremendous performance!
Also arrived yesterday: Paul Lewis' latest Schubert and Linn's Mozart Divertimento etc Scottish Chamber Orchestra Ensemble. (Sound engineer credit - Philip Hobbs. The man's a genius.)
Three recommended sets that have left me breathless with admiration. How damned lucky we are to have access to such quality - in every respect. Thanks reviewers (here and BBC MM, I have to add).
Vic.
Fri, Jan 20 2012, 12:02PM
#6
RE: Simple question ?
I tried to put a post on here and it completely disappeared it did just saying I likes that beethoven violin concerto the best i do.
Fri, Jan 20 2012, 7:36PM
#7
RE: Simple question ?
Agree with Vic, depends which way the wind is blowing. Certainly serendipitous moments for me were discovering Schnabel's first recordings (Sargent) of the last 3 piano concertos (we didn't have the first two) which just entranced me. Despite many other versions on my shelves today I still consider these versions unsurpassed. Then I would play frequently the 78s of Toscanini's NYPSO 7th symphony, still in my opinion the greatest Beethoven symphony recording ever made; it is just so exciting. Now I would add many of the piano sonatas; the last 3, Adieux, Appasionata etc etc (but not the Hammerklavier). As to recordings, Schnabel again of course, Brendel (Vox), Annie Fischer, Backhaus, sometimes Barenboim, Richter-Haaser.Take Op111, as the famous slogan of the News Of The World used to say (not I hasten to add that I ever read it) "all human life is there".
Fri, Jan 20 2012, 10:48PM
#8
RE: Simple question ?
So, after 7 replies, Dr. Frank, we came to the conclusion that the "greatest masterpiece" of the great Meister is...gone with the wind!
After this outcome, try the Piano Sonata in e-minor, op. 90 and get in a ruminative repose. His greatest masterpiece is an illusion.
As for the "blessed" reviews, reading both english(2) and french (2) magazines, on a constant basis, I found four different and conflicting reviews on the latest Beethoven's Symphonies with Chailly (on Decca), ranging from top class to bottom rock. Very enlightening!
Parla
Sat, Jan 21 2012, 2:29AM
#9
RE: Simple question ?
Hi Vic, I downloaded Paul Lewis' Schubert (on Harriet Smith's recommendation, usually a safe bet), but I am so disappointed by D894!! It is my favourite Schubert sonata, and I've spent hours listening to Sviatoslav Richter's recording on Philips, absolutely entranched by his colourful palette, the way be moves from one tonal platform to the next - you completely forget that the first movement is quite long. And then I listen to Paul Lewis's version, considerably faster but seems considerably longer because the musical argument isn't laid out anywhere near as convincing as by Richter. I couldn't make it past one listening to the first movement. And now Richter is back on the CD player to clarify matters.
I understand Paul Lewis's considerable charm as a performer, he is difficult not to look at but so far his recordings haven't done it for me. Unfortunately, I think that British critics cant get past the mesmerising stage presence when reviewing his discographical output. I bought my way through some of his acclaimed Beethoven sonatas but stopped when Gulda's cycle appeared in the middle of my shopping.
Sat, Jan 21 2012, 9:34AM
#10
RE: Simple question ?
Hi Vic, I downloaded Paul Lewis' Schubert (on Harriet Smith's recommendation, usually a safe bet), but I am so disappointed by D894!! couldn't make it past one listening to the first movement.
Unfortunately, I think that British critics cant get past the mesmerising stage presence when reviewing his discographical output.
Once Paul Lewis starts going to football matches and talking in a Liverpool accent British critics will start telling us how tasteless and utterly useless he is and how their previous thoughts were taken out of context. Where's my Nigel Kennedy albums.
Sat, Jan 21 2012, 6:35PM
#11
RE: Simple question ?
It's also amazing how the French (or even the German) magazines treat Mr. Lewis in contrast to the British ones. It's also entertaining to watch the reviews ranging from rock bottom to the very top for the same recording. Of course, there are some few (maybe very few) examples where three out of four or five magazines may converge, still ranging from good to very good. Then, we open the champagne!
HMV, D.894 is not my favourite Schubert's PIano Sonata, but it's definitely a magnificent one altogether. Try Lupu as well. He is absolutely stunning! And in Fortepiano, the unique Badura-Skoda.
As for Beetrhoven, give a shot to the very solid american pianist Garrick Ohlsson, on Bridge (amazing) or even M. Roscoe on Deux-Elles (only two volumes so far) or the extremely bold Sergei Edelmann on superbly stunning recordings of Exton (one volume only) along with the very interesting M. Kodama on Pentatone, just to mention some more interesting pianists than the well advertised Mr. Lewis, who, though very good, is one among so many others, who might be better than him...occasionally.
Parla
Sat, Jan 21 2012, 9:47PM
#12
RE: Simple question ? RE: Simple question ?
Hi Vic, I downloaded Paul Lewis' Schubert (on Harriet Smith's recommendation, usually a safe bet), but I am so disappointed by D894!! couldn't make it past one listening to the first movement.
Unfortunately, I think that British critics cant get past the mesmerising stage presence when reviewing his discographical output.
Once Paul Lewis starts going to football matches and talking in a Liverpool accent British critics will start telling us how tasteless and utterly useless he is and how their previous thoughts were taken out of context. Where's my Nigel Kennedy albums.
And you appear to have laarst your West Country accent Devon Farmer!
Sat, Jan 21 2012, 11:20PM
#13
RE: Simple question ? RE: Simple question ?
[/quote] And you appear to have laarst your West Country accent Devon Farmer![/quote]
I is mixing with posh larndon types now, they wont take me seriously unless i talks properly. I be moving up the ladder i be.
Sun, Jan 22 2012, 12:31AM
#14
RE: Simple question ?
Far from a simple question, but I'll agree that it is the String Quartet #14, Op 131 string quartet in C♯ minor.
Sun, Jan 22 2012, 9:28AM
#15
RE: Simple question ? RE: Simple question ?
[/quote] And you appear to have laarst your West Country accent Devon Farmer![/quote]
I is mixing with posh larndon types now, they wont take me seriously unless i talks properly. I be moving up the ladder i be.
[/quote]
These "posh larndon types" that you are mixing with now wouldn't be trendy liberal lefties, typified by licence-fee subsidised brain-washers at the BBC, would they now?
Vic.
...And you call this a "simple question'? This is an artificial question that will produce a lot (probably) artificial responses, as people have to try to single out a work out of so many masterpieces of the great Master.
The real question should be "is there any work(s) of the great Master that could not be considered as a masterwork"? The funny, intriguing and very exciting thing about Beethoven is that the more you explore his output, the more you find the immense beauty and mastery of his Music. Even his Bagatelles are amazingly glorious and demanding pieces (I remember M. Uchida, in a concert in Berlin, managed to give a magnificent and immaculate performance of "Hammerklavier" and she struggled in a set of the early Bagatelles!).
Anyway, if you really wish to indulge in an artificial vicious circle, good luck. However, even his Violin Sonata no. 8, in G major is an absolute masterpiece that defies any comparison even with "Kreutzer" or any other work. You need a great deal of time to deal with it and, maybe, a lifetime to really comprehend it. So, how do you identify, even in "your humble opinion", which is Beethoven's "greatest masterpiece"?
Parla