The Jubilee concert shows how Classical is being sidelined in the UK
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 9:36AM
Classical music is now seen increasingly by the UK television media as a peripheral minority music that has no relevance to our culture. Indeed, we are witnessing the 'banalisation of culture'. The Diamond Jubilee concert proved this yet again. The only actual classical was Lang Lang playing ridiculously shortened Liszt and Gershwin . His set lasted probably the same time as one Kylie song!
''Pop'' ( a blanket general term I use to encompass pop,dance,rap,r and b,trance,soul,dubstep etc etc etc) has triumphed. The Jubilee concert organised by..er.. Gary Barlow of Take That and featuring JLS and Jessie J demonstrates this clearly. Can you imagine George V commissioning the equivalent of Gary Barlow for an event like this?!! Pop is THE only music that the wider masses are now aware of and the BBC are partly to blame in their increasing sidelining of classical on television-though I am aware the commercial channels totally ignore it nowadays(channel 4 used to show some in the 1980/90's.) This media response was not the case in the 1920's to the 1960's for instance. British composers and performers eg. Sargent,Elgar,Walton,Barbirolli,Vaughan Williams,Holst,Boult were widely known to the public at large. Even in the 1970's Previn had his own classical show demonstrating popular works.I am seriously concerned about how classcial is becoming more sidelined as a minority music in an increasingly anti-intellectual and anti-cultural age. And this is not helped by our politically correct left wing education system which in the last 20 years has made classical just a small part of the music GCSE syllabus-with dance and rap and trance and ethnic music taking a bigger share. No wonder so many kids now have never even heard any classical and only hear it on computer games. If this does not change there will be only tiny audiences in the UK for classical in the future. We should all be worried and should speak out more.
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 10:57AM
#2
RE: The Jubilee concert and the future of Classical Music
While I'm the last person to speak for what's going on or what will happen to U.K. in the future, since I don't reside there, I share the feeling of our new friend in the forum, without dismissing the claims of P.
The point is that, almost worldwide, there is very little defense of Classical Music, which is now treated like any other "music". The worse thing: it is treated like that even by the people who are supposed to defend, promote, enlighten the general public. If this trend is going to be the norm, the end is or is going to be near.
Parla
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 11:06AM
#3
RE: I disagree!
Phlogiston-interesting you say you 'disagree' but then back up what I say in your message.You admit there was was little made of the pageant music-the BBC showed almost none of the London Phil or the the other music-and even send a link backing up what I say. Unfortunately many GSCE music students DO only do trance and pop stuff. I really think many Classical musicians (I am a composer and teacher) are burying their heads in the sand to how bad the situation is now in the UK. Television is the primary mass media and if there is no classical on tv this is a matter of great concern.
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 11:57AM
#4
RE: I agree and disagree.
It is the working classes that dominate in the consumer lead UK music industry, there are more of them. What place has 'serious' music ever held in the UK. A few early 20th century English composers that rearly get a look in abroad, a circumstantial post war opera boom that concentrated the efforts of Britten and the recording industry that became increasing dependant on rock and pop to subsidise Classical Music, oh and Handel and Haydn, as British as the Royal family. The BBC were briefly interested in spreading culture until the middle class London liberals took over, now it's music for the masses and jobs for the boys, all publically funded of course. The situation hasn't been helped by the trendy avant garde composer disinterest in the public. Maybe Classical music belongs in a museum, I doubt however that it should be a British museum , we are too much of a backwater.
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 12:54PM
#5
RE: The Jubilee concert
What a load of pessimistic (and prejudiced) clap-trap. And this on the eve of The BBC Proms - probably the most popular music festival in the world, all of it broadcast live and lots of it on BBC4 television.
Such doom-sayings have been predicting the end of civilisation as we know it since the dawn of time.
It's silly, narrow-minded, and exaggerated out of all proportion.
Vic.
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 1:16PM
#6
RE: The Jubilee concert
To Vic-with respect, you are totally wrong. The BBC broadcast very few purely classical proms on tv last year. Way down from a few years ago. And the Proms is only a tiny part of the year as you well know. Fact is we get hours and hours of banal DIY, cookery,reality shows, and inane chat and pop shows on every channel. But they won't even show a 4 minute Chopin nocturne. Endless repeats of junk talent shows like BGT and X Factor. The composer John Adams said the same thing as me in a speech (referring in his case to US television)-tons of channels with endless junk culture but not one minute of any classical music.
Fisher-Dieskau,one of the most significant singers of the 20th Century died recently, and was on no tv news channels. If Cheryl Cole broke a fingernail it would be though.
Also there was nothing in my message that was prejudiced.
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 2:14PM
#7
RE: The Jubilee concert
(i) To Vic-with respect, you are totally wrong.
(ii) Cheryl Cole broke a fingernail.
(iii) Also there was nothing in my message that was prejudiced.
One at a time
(iii) Your deep seated anti 'London middle class liberal public funding brainwashing' has been noted. You will be taken out at dawn and be forced to listen to the bleeding heart liberalism of Orla Guerin, this will be repeated every 15 minutes (just like the BBC news channel).
(i) It has been said before but not usually this early in his rant.
(ii) Oh my God, has she really, that is sooo totally news, I mean totally whatever is going on in the world, I wonder what product she will use to mend her broken nail, we must be told, OMG OMG OMG that is soooo not LOL.
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 3:33PM
#8
RE: The Jubilee concert
But clearly there is a (paying) audience for classical music, as even a cursory glance over the schedules of Sky Arts 1 and 2 will show.
In about half an hour Sky Arts 1 has an hour-long programme with Sir Simon Rattle discussing his work with the Berlin Philharmonic, at 8pm on SA2 there's Cecilia Bartoli's 2007 Barcelona Concert.
If you happen to be up at 2am tomorrow morning, or can work one of those new-fangled Sky+HD boxes, there's Strauss's Capriccio from the Met, on SA2 preceded by a performance of Schumann 4, and followed by a short programme of Anne-Sophie Mutter, then Mahler 4 at just before 5am.
There's even Indian classical music from last year's Darbar Festival at lunchtime tomorrow, though this does clash with an excellent documentary on Sky Arts 1 about electric guitar pioneer Les Paul, made just before he died in 2009.
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 4:30PM
#9
RE: The Jubilee concert
Also there was nothing in my message that was prejudiced.
Apologies, JY7, I should have made clear that my comments referred to our resident bigot whose post proceeded mine.
Vic.
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 5:59PM
#10
RE: The Jubilee concert
Brassed off! Just spent ages typing a longish response REJECTED AGAIN BECAUSE OF THE 64 CHARACTER PROBLEM.
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 6:34PM
#11
RE: The Jubilee concert
Andrew Everard-I take your point but think you miss the point of what I am saying.Yes a few people subscribe to Sky Arts, but these obviously are those who already like Classical anyway. What I am saying is that much of the wider population are often totally unaware of what classical music is. They don't learn about it or hear it in school, and after leaving school they are just barraged by pop on tv and in shops so they don't know any different.I have taught many teens and adults who have heard almost no classical-it is alien to them!! It is a dire situation.Far worse than years ago when at least the 'potboiler' classics like Scheherezade,1812 etc were known to even those who might normally listen more to popular music. Now many people have heard no classical,potboilers or not,and the BBC have not helped by it's dumbed down agenda in recent years of appealing only on tv to what they think the masses 'want'. Which is why we get endless drivel on BBC now and if it is music, it is nearly always pop based.
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 7:06PM
#12
RE: Interesting comments, most
Interesting comments, most containing some valid points. In this day & age one would not expect the Palace concert to be anything other than it was. I did not watch it (no wonder the Duke took sick!). Also one has to recognize that TV generally plays to the lowest common denominator today; one has only to look back at the early days of BBC2 when David Attenborough was in charge.
However whilst I find the visual aspect of music on TV interesting from time to time I generally find the visual aspect a distraction and if I am listening seriously to CDs or records I will sit with my eyes closed and will often do so even at a live event (see Andrew's posting on how to listen with Dr Dibb).
I am more concerned at the threat to cut down live music on Radio 3 than music on TV. Having said that however BBC4 can do some good music documentaries such as the recent ones on Delius and Kathleen Ferrier (and "Symphony" which caused quite a debate on here). They still do the BBC Young Musician even if they did generally make a hash of it. Each category gave five 20 minute recitals but the producers obviously thought this required far too much concentration so we just got short excerpts other than in the final. I await with interest to see what the BBC TV will do for the forthcoming Leeds competition. One thing for sure it will be nothing like what I think was the 1968 event when BBC2 gave hours to it and the dispute over whether Rafael Orozco or Victoria Postnikova should have won first prize made news in the national press.
The late John Drummond's autobiography makes some interesting points on music on radio & TV (I should have listed it on the music books post) from his days as a TV producer, Radio 3 Controller and Proms Director. Also his views and comments on many performers make entertaining reading (even if he gets a bit catty at times!).
Well! Kept this post on one Window whilst I sent the earlier one. Now the 64 problem has disappeared and my post has come up with a different heading to the rest; is there a connexion?
Thu, Jun 7 2012, 8:38PM
#13
RE: The Jubilee concert
Andrew Everard-I take your point but think you miss the point of what I am saying.Yes a few people subscribe to Sky Arts, but these obviously are those who already like Classical anyway.
Not really – even subscribers to the most basic Sky package get Sky Arts 1 and 2 as part of the deal.
Fri, Jun 8 2012, 10:24AM
#14
RE: The Jubilee concert
Andrew Everard-but most of the country are not subscribed to Sky! I am talking about the far bigger picture. Fact is the BBC who we all pay towards the licence, show almost no classical .They dumbed down Young Musician of the Year into soundbites and showed very little pure classical Proms last year-mostly John Wilson doing tired musicals medleys which is not classical anyway. The BBC have indeed gone the opposite to what they used to be ,which was to educate and enlighten the public. Now they just pander to the lowest common denominator and ratings. And the other channels like ITV and Channel 4 now show NO classical as if it does'nt exist at all. All we get on Channel 4 now is endless hours of Come Dine with Me,house improvements,cookery,pop stars who sing banal rubbish, and reality garbage. As composer John Adams said you can see a sauteed kidney on tv but not any classical music. Time there was protest-there is too much apathy and resignation in the Classical world that classical can be treated like a doormat.
Fri, Jun 8 2012, 11:04AM
#15
RE: The end is 'nigh'bours
I agree, it is time we stopped paying for 'public service broadcasting' as the BBC no longer offer anything that is not available elsewhere. Scrap the license free and let us chose which services we want to pay for. We can all obtain enough free TV to cover the trash people like to watch and enough free news channels, give us back our licensing fee and we can chose what we pay to add to our service.
Power to the people and freedom of choice, or do the BBC just pretend that these are their values.
The pop concert had little "classical music", but there was serious music in the Thames Pageant, even if little of it made it onto TV.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/06/jubilee-pageant-composers-bbc-coverage?INTCMP=SRCH
I would be disinclined to fret about the big popular concert, it was meant to be music for the people. I deliberately did not watch a concert I knew I wouldn't enjoy.
Incidentally, 16 year old daughter who has just finished music GCSE studied no dance / trance / ethnic music. Mozart / Schonberg / Glass / jazz was what she had.
P