The most annoying operatic character
Mon, Oct 29 2012, 7:26PM
#2
RE: The most annoying operatic character
German speaking people confirm to me that Wagner's texts for his Gesamtwerke would constitute terrible reading, if they have to be publicised as a sort of literature works.
Parla
How could I forget Siegfried? Hands-down, the overall winner. Of the performances I've seen, only Jerusalem's holds me from cheering for Mime, the dragon, the Gibichung lot and anyone else who wants to take on the jerk.
I find myself in the unfamiliar role of supporting Parla, re. libretti. If we start from the premise that very, very few of them make good stand-alone drama, poetry or general literature, and a large portion are near-drivel, then it becomes a question of what those responsible for staging can make of them. Not much, in many cases. I recently rewatched the appalling Met I Puritani and found myself wondering yet again how producer, director and stage director had the balls to show up for their pay cheques.
On the other hand, and to take another opera with a notoriously inept libretto, McVicar's production of Il Trovatore is the first to convince me of this work as a stage drama rather than just a musical canvas.
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 12:02AM
#3
RE: The most annoying operatic character
BR, I cannot believe you keep misinterpreting my posts in such a distorted way. So, once more, I do not nominate any character as "annoying", particularly my beloved Rodolfo.On the contrary, I said the Puccini's enchanting music transforms a dull, trivial text to something utterly meaningful and amazingly beautiful.
Thanks Tagalie for the "unfamiliar role" you undertook.
Parla
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 2:52AM
#4
RE: The most annoying operatic character
...a large portion are near-drivel...
I couldn't agree more. One has only to think of those composers who have struggled to set them, those opera house managers who have insisted on substantial changes to them
throughout history, those musicologists who have decried the libretti in pre-Wagnerian German opera, and those experts in the music of Tippett who freely admit that his self-written libretti stink to see how many bad ones exist. Like some of the appalling doggeral Schubert set, we have to be thankful that most of the standard repertoire is not in English!
Siegfried? Surely a controversial choice. And what about whining Violetta?
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 2:50AM
#5
RE: The most annoying operatic character
...a dull, trivial text...
Dull, trivial people I also find annoying. :p
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 12:37PM
#6
RE: The most annoying operatic character
As for lack of responses, that seems to be a plague that effects 99.99% of posts of this forum. Apart from the jazz thread (a form of music no longer catered for in G) every other one is effectively moribund.
Precisely the reason I gave up contributing to the forum. I occasionally glance at a topic, like this one, that attracts my eye on the home page of the site, but a quick read through confirms that the same people are spewing out the same old rubbish. These same people twist themselves in knots trying to prove they are always right, and it is not long before the actual topic is forgotten. I just can't be bothered with it.
I suspect there are lots like me.
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 2:52PM
#7
RE: The most annoying operatic character
As for lack of responses, that seems to be a plague that effects 99.99% of posts of this forum. Apart from the jazz thread (a form of music no longer catered for in G) every other one is effectively moribund.
Precisely the reason I gave up contributing to the forum. I occasionally glance at a topic, like this one, that attracts my eye on the home page of the site, but a quick read through confirms that the same people are spewing out the same old rubbish. These same people twist themselves in knots trying to prove they are always right, and it is not long before the actual topic is forgotten. I just can't be bothered with it.
I suspect there are lots like me.
Tsaraslondon, I suspect you share a commonly held view, and I'm sure we all have our own nominations for the most annoying poster(s), but it's possible to sort the wheat from the chaff and ignore the occasional predictably tendentious de haut en bas pronouncements.Your contributions would increase the wheat to chaff ratio!
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 4:11PM
#8
RE: The most annoying operatic character
What a tendentious de haut en bas pronouncement from you JKH. However, I cannot say it was not predictable.
And how convenient, Tsaraslondon, to call anything, that is not agreeable to you, "the same old rubbish". However, you may be right: there are "lots like you".
Parla
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 6:43PM
#9
RE: The most annoying operatic character
...the same people are spewing out the same old rubbish.
Pomposity and pretentiousness does seem to be rife on here. The whole site seems to be infected by an unsmiling quality that clearly accounts for the low number of postings.
Still, those interested in a more friendly and comfortable environment in which to chat about music are welcome to visit the site below.
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 7:43PM
#10
RE: The most annoying operatic character
Hi Tsara and Bazza.
I would echo what JKH has just said - stick around! A number of regular posters - Craig, Vic, Tagalie, Troyen, DST etc... (apologies if I've missed any out!) have/had largely given-up recently and I had forum fatigue as I say and took a break for a couple of months.
It's worth coming back for me because I can talk to like-minded people anywhere in this global village of ours.
Parla - forum fatigue is caused by the all-seeing eye of surveillance, which, Cyclops like, muscles in and kerboshes or attempts to any discussion on anything which is not the sacred canon between about 1750 and 1900.
Mark
Sorry Bazza - a bit of a novice on opera so I can't really answer your question!
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 7:53PM
#11
RE: The most annoying operatic character
and those experts in the music of Tippett who freely admit that his self-written libretti stink to see how many bad ones exist. Like some of the appalling doggeral Schubert set, we have to be thankful that most of the standard repertoire is not in English!
Siegfried? Surely a controversial choice. And what about whining Violetta?
Absolutely, there's a long list of self-written libretti that wouldn't wouldn't have made it to the pupils' contribution pages of a school magazine. Check out Rautavaara's Rasputin for a recent addition. And I'm with you the comment on English texts. Britten was a bit hit-and-miss, set some wonderful poetry but the only libretto of his that I can stomach end to end is Grimes. Mind you, there are times when it's Britten's settings that irritate me. I've loved Wilfred Owen since I was a kid but, and I'm probably in a very small minority here, I don't like what Britten does to his poems in War Requiem, particularly Futility.
Hey, go easy on Violetta lad! You'd whine too if you were coughing your guts out.
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 8:07PM
#12
RE: The most annoying operatic character
Tsaraslondon, I suspect you share a commonly held view, and I'm sure we all have our own nominations for the most annoying poster(s), but it's possible to sort the wheat from the chaff and ignore the occasional predictably tendentious de haut en bas pronouncements.Your contributions would increase the wheat to chaff ratio!
Agreed, and with Mark's comment above too. Occasionally we've all had enough and a month or two away does you good. Unfortunately it does seem that the sane posters take sabbaticals or vanish, the irritating ones soldier on. Such is the nature of forums (fora?). We seem to have, for now at least, shed one of them - he of 1000 aliases.
JKH, good to have you back. I have a sense you promised us some feedback on something to do with Kaufmann, something that goes back to early this year before you, or I or both, became disaffected. Weren't you going to see him live or take a look at a new opera dvd performance? I don't want to pull this thread off topic but there's at least one Kaufmann thread you could resurrect a few pages back.
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 9:39PM
#13
RE: The most annoying operatic character
What a tendentious de haut en bas pronouncement from you JKH. However, I cannot say it was not predictable.
And how convenient, Tsaraslondon, to call anything, that is not agreeable to you, "the same old rubbish". However, you may be right: there are "lots like you".
Parla
Aren't you being just a tad sensitive Parla old chap? I've read my short post again and, try as I might, I can see no-one named in it. Surely you couldn't possibly conclude it was directed at you, could you? Whyever would you think that?
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 9:56PM
#14
RE: The most annoying operatic character
JKH, good to have you back. I have a sense you promised us some feedback on something to do with Kaufmann, something that goes back to early this year before you, or I or both, became disaffected. Weren't you going to see him live or take a look at a new opera dvd performance? I don't want to pull this thread off topic but there's at least one Kaufmann thread you could resurrect a few pages back.
Many thanks Tagalie. I'd forgotten about my Kaufmann promise (not difficult, these days I struggle to remember further back than my last solid meal at times) but will have a look tomorrow and get down to fulfilling it.
A nation waits. Or there again, perhaps not.....
Tue, Oct 30 2012, 10:17PM
#15
RE: The most annoying operatic character
I attempted to post something yesterday but for some reason it has not appeared, so forgive me for joining late!
Second the comments about Siegfried, who really does deserve the stab in the back a night later after boring his way through an opera named after him. I am always terribly sad to see Wotan disappear, and Mime for that matter - much more interesting characters.
I would add to the bores Don Ottavio - what a dreary character. His only purpose seems to me to show how Don Giovanni is much better company... even though he is a murdering bounder! Lensky is pretty dull too, until the moment before the duel when suddenly he comes alive, but I always feel sorry for Lensky and his affection for Olga. And yes, pretty much the whole cast of Cosi - the music cannot save them.
On the other side of the coin having seen the plays 'Salome' and 'Elektra' I have to say I think Strauss managed to elevate them to a wholey different level, particularly Salome. Wilde's play just comes across as so static that productions seem to grind to a halt - by not quite so badly as Peter Handke's play 'The Long Way Round', which remains etched on my memory as three hours stolen form my teens...
So Parla nominates Rodolfo from "La Boheme". It was longwinded, but we got there eventually. :)
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