The worst record covers ever
I saw it, Bliss. It could be a good way out, but, in my case, it's not feasible. I have already two "saturated" e-mail addresses. I cannot afford to embark on discussions on this matter in my private or business life.Anonymity is of utmost importance too.
However, I understand the frustration and distraction it is created in hijacking threads, but I only respond, when and wherever I'm challenged.
Anyway, soon (or very soon) this "entertaining" (in a way) "duel" should and is going to end.
Parla
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Vic,
You have the patience of a saint.
You win the argument but he will either never see it or accept it in his desire to prattle on and on clutching at perceived allies (where ignorance is...).
Resistance is futile, as the Borg might say.
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I cannot afford to embark on discussions on this matter in my private or business life........
Have you discovered another aspect of life which fits neither of the above categories? I ask only out of idle curiosity, not a desire to embark on a conversation.
Like Troyen (and as I've said more than once in the past) I admire Vic's Job-like efforts, but this is surely now approaching Jarndyce v Jarndyce territory. Personally, I support Jarndyce, but might not a seperate thread dedicated specifically to this particular tangent be in order?
JKH
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SepArate thread? Just give it up, all of you. Oh for the days when this forum meant something. Where is Hal Owen when you need him. (If you don't know Hal Owen you haven't been a member very long.)
Bliss
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Surely this is the worst abum cover of all time. I have seen some wonderful photos of soprano Anita Cerquetti, but this one makes her look like a vampire just come from feasting....
http://www.amazon.com/Anita-Cerquetti-Grandi-Operatic-Arias/dp/B000025PVQ
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Covers, anyone?
None to suggest, JAH. Sorry. Do you have an opinion on the subject of this (admittedly hijacked) debate?
Vic.
Yes, Vic, I've already given my pennyworth on cover evaluation. It's lost somewhere.
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Surely this is the worst abum cover of all time. I have seen some wonderful photos of soprano Anita Cerquetti, but this one makes her look like a vampire just come from feasting....
It's unflattering, certainly, but the worst ever?
May I suggest you look at the Vladislav Kazevin cover - back on an early page - in pre-hijack times.
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Surely this is the worst abum cover of all time. I have seen some wonderful photos of soprano Anita Cerquetti, but this one makes her look like a vampire just come from feasting....
http://www.amazon.com/Anita-Cerquetti-Grandi-Operatic-Arias/dp/B000025PVQ
I don't need to open that link - just the name reminded me of it. I always wondered why she approved that particular snap.
Wonderful singer, though.
JKH
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Resistance is futile, as the Borg might say.
I thought that was said by the Vogons in the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music'.
Aldous Huxley brainyquote.com
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Resistance is futile, as the Borg might say.
I thought that was said by the Vogons in the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
It is not usually known that the Borg assimilated the Vogons very early on.
And they tried to resist!
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Oh for the days when this forum meant something.
Shall we leave to others to decide for themselves what is or is not meaningful here, Bliss?
However, I guess you will be relieved to read that this issue has now reached the goal of my (admittedly somewhat obsessive) pursuit of Parla' argument that the assessment of quality in music is a matter of fact and not opinion.
If the pursuit of truth in the argument he made that there is proof of the existence of god in classical music, as well as the argument that companies' reissued CDs deteriorate quicker than their originals both ended inconclusively, this one has not.
Parla states:
"The use of "brilliant" is descriptive;
it's not a value judgment ... The words "amazing", "splendour"
etc. are descriptive [ ] of what
technically happens in the music work ... The first one is objective (it has to do with
the actual value of the product) ... So … when a work has these ... features
(structure, orchestration, etc.), it is a great composition..."
Note particularly the use of "objective" and "value" in the statement: "The first one is objective (it has to do with the actual value of the product)". What could "objective" and "value" mean here? The last sentence contradicts completely the argument it is used to support: everything with features like structure and orchestration is great? Everything?
It has taken a long time to pin Parla down to these specific claims which I think show his "Alice-in-Wonderland" use of language: "Brilliant", "amazing" and "splendour" are not words that express value-judgments, they are statements of fact. But only when applied to music which has such features as "structure" and "orchestration" - not of all music, although all music contains them - but only some music. And that music happens to be the music that Parla considers worthy of possessing those "value-free" connotations and not that music that doesn't. The statement, "It is brilliant" is only sometimes a matter of opinion. So the next time you observe a "splendid" sunset, ask yourself if it is splendid just because the sun is going down (which is a fact) or splendid because you are moved by it. But more than that: is it really up to you to decide whether a sunset is an appropriate context to use the (sometimes) objective and value-free descriptor, "splendid". How more nonsensical can this get?
Parla's case that some music is objectively superior to others, using the evidence that he has supplied, is illogical. Arguments that defy logic are nonsense.
All subsequent arguments, denials, protestations of misrepresentation, etc, etc, will be referred without comment to statements he has made in this debate.
Now for something much more meaningful and important for this forum. Where are those terrible CD covers?
Vic.
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I'm sorry to say, Vic, but you pin-point what is convenient for your interpretation of my posts. You ignore certain other parts that you leave them unanswered and you resort to some irrelevant metaphors, like the entertaining one with the..."sunset". So, sunset is an art. It has structure, tonal development, modulations, etc.
If there is no way artistically, musically, technically (choose which suits you better) to evaluate the musical work, then Jimi Hendrix is equal to Liszt, 50 cent to Mozart and any other assertion can go as well. So, what's the big deal to care about anything in music? If, by definition, there is no objective way to appreciate (not like) music, then, enjoy whatever you wish, there is nothing to appreciate, nothing to pursue in it. Just pure (and, in quite a few cases, blind) enjoyment!
Fortunately, in my lifetime, I met this obsessive notion only in this forum. So far, in all my encounters with people from quite a few different parts of the planet of all sorts of levels of knowledge and interest in music, it was understood that there is the personal (emotional) involvement in music and the technical (musical, artistic), which is evaluated by people who know music and by the rules and laws of this art.
So, Vic, please be kind enough not to declare unilateral victories, where there is none. Frostwalrus has put the issue in the right perspective, leaving the whole thing inconclusive, as both sides have to present their arguments. I did it. If they don't work with you and quite a few other members, let's say that we can live with our "artistic differences".
Yes, no go back to these covers to cover up this unproductive discussion. Check out the packages too, not only the covers. You may find plenty to debate about.
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Do you plan to answer this, Vic? No, don't respond to this. I don't want to be accused of obstructing genius at work.
Bliss
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then Jimi Hendrix is equal to Liszt,
Fortunately, in my lifetime, I met this obsessive notion only in this forum. So far, in all my encounters with people from quite a few different parts of the planet of all sorts of levels of knowledge and interest in music, it was understood that there is the personal (emotional) involvement in music and the technical (musical, artistic), which is evaluated by people who know music and by the rules and laws of this art
Oh come on Parla, this is a notion that has been encouraged by the BBC and other liberals in the UK for over 50 years. I can't believe you are so far behind the times in central europe. Everything is equal, we are all equal, we believe in equal, we worship the god equal (although he's not really a god as that would make him unequal (better than us, with more knowledge) he's really just a broadcasting beacon, an icon, we even pay for him to exist),
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Excellent point and long in coming, Parla. See my suggestion above your latest post.
Bliss