Too Loud and Too Low
Sat, Dec 10 2011, 10:34PM
I have found recently that many CDs, DVDs and Blue Rays (and even digitalized old recordings) in the low volume sections, way too low so that I can barely hear the music but when I turn up the volume, the sound in the high volume sections almost blast me out of the room. LPs did not ever have this problem. Today I played the Tchaikovsky 5th and could not even hear the very beginning so I turned up the volume and it was loud-loud. Does anyone here have this problem and if so, how do you cope with it? I am able to play music fairly loud but there is a limit anywhere. Any thoughts?
Sat, Dec 10 2011, 11:53PM
#2
RE: Too Loud and Too Low
It depends on the recording. I know a couple of producers who record at full spec in order to release Hybrid SACDs and the dynamic range they get can be staggering - especially on things like Mahler symphonies. One in particular has recently been running the latest generation of ultra-low noise cables from the mics to the computer he records on and so there really isnt any resistance between the sound and the machine. It's like sitting in the front seat.
The trouble is that these producers/engineers expect everyone to be listening in completely noise proofed rooms on high end equipment, which is often not the case - certainly listening to these CD's in the car can be almost pointless as the quiet passages are inaudible.
The LP's you mentioned were made back in the analogue days when everything was recorded onto tape, which tended to compress the dynamic range (and add a certain warmth, but let's not open that can of worms). Also the engineers had to consider the signal-to-noise ratio that was part and parcel of analogue recording (ie the tape hiss), so the dynamic range was not as wide.
I completely understand your issue - especially as I have a toddler asleep in the room above so recently I have been avoiding big orchestral things and focussing on chamber music as the dynamic range is more manageable. Or I listen through closed back headphones that don't require as much volume. I don't feel it's an issue of the quality of your equipment nessesarily as in my experience the better the gear the bigger the shock when the loud bits happen.
Sun, Dec 11 2011, 9:58AM
#3
RE: Too Loud and Too Low
Jesserj, I think Bob is correct - in my experience the greater the ability of a system to cope with the dynamic range of a recording, the greater the emphasis of the differences. The 'noise floor' that existed on LPs, tapes and, presumably CDs to a certain extent, is now disappearing thanks to the increasingly sophisticated recording equipment that Bob describes. I suspect that other factors - domestic layout, room size etc - are becoming even more influential than they have ever been.
I've recently had to re-arrange my listening set-up through 90 degrees for domestic reasons. All other things in the room are the same, but the differences in some loud concerted passages in recordings I know intimately is very noticeable. I'd certainly like to read a bit more deeply on the effects of room acoustics - maybe an article in Gramophone?
Sun, Dec 11 2011, 2:08PM
#4
RE: Too Loud and Too Low
Parla, I have the following video and audio system:
Integra controller 80.2 AV
Rotel power amp 1575
Panosonic 50 in. Viera Plasma TV
B&W 802s front speakers
JM Lab center speaker
JM Lab back speakers
James EMB 1000 sub woofer
Roksan radius turntable with Grado TLZ stereo pickup cartridge
Oppo Universal blue ray player BDP-95
I have what I believe to be a very fine sytem. I hear each part of an orchestra separately but as I say, the louds and the lows create a problem. If I know the music I can raise and lower the volume at will. I thank you and the other guys for your answers.
Sun, Dec 11 2011, 6:26PM
#5
RE: Too Loud and Too Low
Jesserj, your system is fine, but it's a home theatre one. I have dealt so far only with audio systems, since I concentrate on the listening experience at home. (I think the "Live" cannot be easily replaced by any home theatre, since it underscores the virtual reality feeling).
Since I turned to the Krell, particularly on the Power Amp (but the SACD player is impressive too), and Classe Audio for Pre amp, I resolved all these problems, but, I admit, with a home theatre system (though Krell excels in this field as well), I might have had some kind of diificulties. For cables I use Krell's and Van der Hul's. High-end cables can resolve quite a few audio problems.
JKH is quite right about the proper arrangement of the listening room (it's sometimes more than 50% of the listening experience) as well as good insulation (for the appropriate absorption of the sound).
Parla
Sun, Dec 11 2011, 9:30PM
#6
RE: Too Loud and Too Low
Parla, I forgot to add that there is a way and I do use it, to just use the B&Ws analogue sound by using the Oppo 95 stereo channels. You do not get the digital sound of the rest of the system at all. I sometimes try it both ways before making up my mind as to stereo or 5.1 surround sound. I know it is not perfect but it is as good as I can do it in a small NYC apartment on the 20th floor. Incidentally, I am also a movie lover so I need this system as is. I really do enjoy it despite my complaint about loud and low.
Mon, Dec 12 2011, 9:25PM
#7
RE: Too Loud and Too Low RE: Too Loud and Too Low
" High-end cables can resolve quite a few audio problems......" (parla)
Sorry, that's just technically illiterate. Any competently constructed cable assembly with the correct electrical characteristics (a low, essentially resistive impedance and high immunity to interfering signals) and good mechanical design will perform its function without affecting signal transfer in any detectable way, and it need not be particularly expensive.
If there are 'audio problems' to be resolved in a system then they would almost certainly lie in the active components, not the cable, unless the cable interconnect itself were incompetently designed, for example with too high a capacitance or poor, high impedance screen connectivity.
'Designer' named cables are for those with a suggestible nature and money to waste. Better buy more CDs instead.
Tue, Dec 13 2011, 7:17AM
#8
RE: Too Loud and Too Low RE: Too Loud and Too Low
Sorry, that's just technically illiterate. Any competently constructed cable assembly with the correct electrical characteristics
Interestingly The Gadget Show (UK Channel 5) recently did tests comparing 'high end' cables with more economical ones and they could not find any discernable improvement in sound quality.
This was the second time in recent years they have conducted these trials because of retail outlets 'upselling' expensive unecessary cables.
Tue, Dec 13 2011, 9:33AM
#9
RE: Too Loud and Too Low
What I claimed is from my own experience, using different cables with the same audio system. The difference was obvious not only to me, but to anybody...present.
In any case, I have noticed most of the high-end recordings always mention, along with the rest of the monitor system, the cables used. It might be for... "pedantic" reasons, but maybe not.
Our hi-fi specialist insists that you have to choose the "right" cables with the equipment in question. For Krell, apart from the manufacturer's suggestion, it is recommended to use Krell's cables, at least for the interconnect (SACD to Pre-Amp to Power Amp).With Power Amp to the loudspeakers, I found a noticeable difference with Van der Hul cables.
Parla
Tue, Dec 13 2011, 12:56PM
#10
RE: Too Loud and Too Low
Well Krell would say use their own cables wouldn't they! The fact is that no cable has a flat frequency response and the attenuation (signal loss) of any cable increases with frequency quite significantly so that the cable is acting as a frequency selective filter or tone control. My own view is that with the amounts of cable in audio systems the lengths involved are so short and the actual values of attenuation are so low over these distances that the difference in attenuation between say 20Hz and 20 kHz will not be noticeable. If someone does think they can hear a difference then fine, they are merely hearing the difference between different filter characteristics and prefering one filter over another.
I am sure cable manufacturers don't like to admit the fact that their products do not have a flat resonse. How many manufacturers of cable exotica actually publish the technical parameters of their products? (I worked once upon a time in the cable industry, have designed cables for both voice frequency and high frequency use and have undertaken attenuation vs frequency measurements on them). Between my own sources and amplifiers I use RG 59 coax, a well known and established product with readily available full technical specifications.
Fri, Dec 23 2011, 10:07AM
#11
RE: Too Loud and Too Low
Some modern recordings do have too wide dynamic range for home listening, it is true. I would also point out that some conductors are a cause - for instance Osmo Vanska (a superb conductor in every respect) uses extreme dynamics on many of his recordings, particularly in his excellent Sibelius symphonies cycle on BIS. One has only to hear a live performance to realise the massive impact these extremes have on the listening experience and indeed the perception of the work. The other extreme is to listen to artificially limited music, such as churned out by Classic FM, to realise how much worse the alternative can be!
What kind of hi-fi system you use?
With my high-end equipment, I don't face this problem, but I can understand you. I had this problem with previous lower quality equipments.
Parla