Where do I start with Opera?

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Peter Street
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

My preferred bits of "Boheme" are Acts II and III - though in general, being very old-fashioned, I'm always a bit suspicious of Puccini.   He's far too good at what he does.  But I still remember the old "Record Guide' on the Toscanini recording, which is not in the least like your modern jet set production, but was conducted by the man who conducted the premiere.   "La Boheme" (Sackville-West or Andrew Porter pointed out) is an opera of conversations, and needs to be taken at a pace at which the conversations sound natural.   Toscanini, who is brisk, does just that.   The quartet at the end of Act III is just that too - two vital conversations overlaying each other, and when it works, is bitter-sweet in just the right way for the piece.   And in a decent early LP pressing of the Toscanini set (sorry to harp on like this but it does make a difference, especially spread across two speakers) the effect of the whole opera is raw, youthful, and almost completely unsentimental - which is what verismo is about.   I don't know the Australian Opera DVD, but there's no reason why it shouldn't work that way too.

I hope Peter Street the poet doesn't mind my accidentally high-jacking the name as a pseudonym- I promise, I was actually thinking of a street in a city I know very well.

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guitar
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

If recitatives are a "step too far" for richypike I wonder if people think that Carmen might be a reasonable starter? There are plenty of recordings where the spoken recitative is retained (although I don't feel qualified to recommend a recording as I'm still searching -- not Bumbry/Vickers under Fruhbeck de Burgos is as far as I can go!).

 

And if the idea of opera as a dramatic form still seems preposterous I agree with the poster who suggested thinking about the singers -- you could view this as a great vehicle for a mezzo to act & sing, & consider whether she 'stakes her claim' in the role, in the way one might talk about an actor's Hamlet or something like that.

richypike
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

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Well my adventures in opera have begun!

I have completed La Boheme and can say I was gripped. The version I watched was of Opera Australia's 1993 production with Cheryl Barker as Mimi. An unashamedly romantic opera, I was surprised and pleased at the sad ending. As I mentioned I'm an opera virgin so plots and storylines are completely new to me.

It was (to me) sung well - full of big tunes and I found the whole stage experience fascinating. 

I'm not a huge fan of romantic music but I think the easy listening tunes, wonderful orchestration and uncomplicated plot definitely helped ease the inaugural process.

Thanks to everyone for all your guidance and suggestions, I'll be revisiting your posts for more ideas. And as opera is a visual/audio experience I'll stick with DVD's initially until I feel I'm ready to start comparing different versions of the operas I hopefully will get to love.

Now what's this Bluebeards Castle all about then?

parisboy42
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

I don't know if anyone suggested this, but I would try the extensive Chandos Opera in English series. Surely, a foreign language can be a barrier to enjoyment of opera, so why not remove the barrier. These versions are well done. They may not be the best, but it is way to getting into opera. Some have even been conducted by famous conductors like Sir Charles Mackerras. Such is the case with most of the Janacek operas and even Mozart's Cosi Fan Tutte. 

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tagalie
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

parisboy42 wrote:

I don't know if anyone suggested this, but I would try the extensive Chandos Opera in English series. Surely, a foreign language can be a barrier to enjoyment of opera, so why not remove the barrier.

Mmmmmm ............ maybe. Depends on the opera, the language, the composer, the competence or otherwise of the translator. For me, having the libretto sung in English leaves some works relatively unscathed - you mention Janacek for instance. Although Janacek wrote specifically to suit the rhythms of the Czech language I don't think his operas 'sound' too different in English. On the other hand, translation from French or Italian into English is a hazardous business, can sometimes sound ludicrous and certainly can change the feel of an opera. Was it on this site, or in something I read recently, that somebody said Verdi in English can sound curiously like Gilbert and Sullivan?

Poetry always loses much in translation and since many libretti are written as extended poems I believe they're best left in their original language.

dubrob
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

Personally I would never recommend operas in translation. The Italian operas I have heard in English were so awful that I couldn´t keep a straight face, and I think Italian or French or German recitative translated into English would turn somebody, especially if they were new to opera, off it completely, and put them off repeating the experience. I don´t think a foreign language is a barrier to appreciating and enjoying opera at all, especially if you have a written translation or even a basic synopsis. The whole singing style of opera is so particular that even if it´s in a language you underdstand perfectly there´s probably a lot that you won´t catch and will need to refer to a libretto anyway. 

parisboy42
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

Well, I just got done listening to Berg's Lulu and Wozzeck in English and it didn't put me off at all. I think it is sheer snobbery to claim that it sounds ridiculous in English. I read Italian and French fluently and can follow an opera in German with a libretto, but I feel that I always learn something new when I listen to an opera in English. Even if does sound like Gilbert and Sullivan, G&S are great to listen to in their own right. 

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richypike
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

Quote:
Surely, a foreign language can be a barrier to enjoyment of opera,

Thanks for your input Parisboy42 - I have no problem with languages and believe that an opera should be heard in the language for which it was written. Saturday night Radio 3 (UK) broadcast live an English translation of Don Giovanni and I found myself bothered by the 'silliness' of the text. As long as I have a grasp of what's happening I don't feel I have to understand every word.

tagalie
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

parisboy42 wrote:

Well, I just got done listening to Berg's Lulu and Wozzeck in English and it didn't put me off at all. I think it is sheer snobbery to claim that it sounds ridiculous in English. I read Italian and French fluently and can follow an opera in German with a libretto, but I feel that I always learn something new when I listen to an opera in English. Even if does sound like Gilbert and Sullivan, G&S are great to listen to in their own right. 

Nah, not snobbery. Just sensitivity to the nuances and the sounds of language and a belief that if you can make out what's being said in the original, that's the way to go. Since you're fluent in French, what do you think of Voltaire's translation of Hamlet's famous soliloquy?

I've no problem with G&S sounding like G&S but I'd sooner have Verdi sounding like Verdi.

parisboy42
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

I suppose that I must admit I've never read Voltaire's translation because unlike opera, I read English in the original, but I would probably understand it better because French has not changed much since Voltaire and present-day readers of French can still read Voltaire's French without recourse to footnotes whereas present-day readers of English do. Let's face it. Most opera plots are silly to begin with. They only seem even sillier in English because we fully understand when we hear them in English, how silly they really are.

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parisboy42
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

I have just been listening to Domingo and Sutherland in Tales of Hoffman. Although Domingo's French is quite understandable, you can tell that he is not a native French speaker. The singing is much too open and the nasal and brighting-sounding singing of the native French singer is missing. As for Sutherland, she fares much better. It's pity that Decca chose to cast a star instead of instead of much-better sounding native singer. It's funny that in this recording all of the secondary roles are held by native French speakers, making at least the dialog sound idiomatic and funny when it is supposed to be funny. I suppose it was all done for commercial reasons. Domingo sounds much better in Italian.

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caballe
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

parisboy42 wrote:

I have just been listening to Domingo and Sutherland in Tales of Hoffman. Although Domingo's French is quite understandable, you can tell that he is not a native French speaker. The singing is much too open and the nasal and brighting-sounding singing of the native French singer is missing. As for Sutherland, she fares much better. It's pity that Decca chose to cast a star instead of instead of much-better sounding native singer. It's funny that in this recording all of the secondary roles are held by native French speakers, making at least the dialog sound idiomatic and funny when it is supposed to be funny. I suppose it was all done for commercial reasons. Domingo sounds much better in Italian.

I think record companies frequently chose to record star singers in roles which were in their repertory on the whole. Was there any other native French singer around in the early seventies who could give full justice to the role of Hoffman?

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parisboy42
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

No other French singer was around at that time I believe. No Roberto Alagnas back then.

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parisboy42
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

However, there still existed at that time an institution in Paris called the Opéra Comique which was dedicated to singing French repertoire. This is where operas such as Pelleas et Mélisande were premiered. Decca could have chosen to record with the talent then available at the Opéra Comique had the recording in question not coincided with the globalization of opera and the star system. There were two opera companies at that time - the Opéra de Paris - which sung a more international repertoire - and the Opéra Comique. The Opéra Comique was disbanded some time in the 70s.  Even today, there are two distinct companies -one housed in the old Palais Garnier from the 19th century- and the other headquartered in the new Opera Bastille built in the 1980s. They have different repertoires even today. 

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guillaume
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

parisboy42 wrote:

Let's face it. Most opera plots are silly to begin with. They only seem even sillier in English because we fully understand when we hear them in English, how silly they really are.

Since most opera libretti are derived from pre-existing material, often plays or novels, their plots are only as silly as those of their literary sources. I once saw cited, as an example of the ludicrousness of opera, Gilda's singing her final aria in Rigoletto while tied up in a sack. Yet this is a faithful representation of Victor Hugo's play Le Roi s'amuse, from which Rigoletto derives and in which the heroine utters her dying speech while tied up in a sack!

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