Where do I start with Opera?

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tagalie
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

The Malfitano Salome is excellent on dvd. Not everybody's favourite singer but she fits the part to a T.

Even though it's lip-synched, which generally rules out a performance for me, the Stratas Salome is absolutely superb.

I recently bought the Met performance with Mattila in the title role but haven't watched it through yet. My initial reaction, the the first hour or so, is she's way too old. Too bad the Met didn't film her first time round.

On cd I love the Kempe/Vickers/Rysanek performance.

Nobody's mentioned Die Frau ohne Schatten, my favourite Strauss opera with first class performances on cd and dvd, both by Solti.

parla
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

Die Frau ohne Schatten, Tagalie? That's strong "taste" (since you believe in that notion). I'm afraid this work is not for the "majority"; it does not even belong to what Opera is all about: the most popular form of Classical Music. Very introspective, heavy, dark, almost unnecessary long; of course, great music by a Meister. However, if I have to pass through such a laborious, perilous way, I prefer Wagner, der Meister!

Der Rosenkavlier, Ariadne, Arabella and Capriccio make all the difference in R. Strauss music. (Of course, "Taste" prevails nowadays, after all..).

Parla

mcmahongg
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

You might like to try some recent operas too, e.g.

Philip Glass Akhnaten -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZETL2_UHcM

or John Adams's Nixon in China -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tv3hrZmcEk

or 

Doctor Atomic -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYiokai3FW4

Good luck in your explorations

Gerry

 

richypike
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

 

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WOW! Blown away by the time you've all taken to help me learn to love opera.

JKH - I too am very indifferent to Brahms and Elgar but have loved VW for 30yrs. Would be interested to hear a suggestion from you as to where to start.

Tagalie - thanks. I have narrowed my idea of opera so will try early and modern operas especially as these are the periods I normally listen to. DOH!

Ok Martin I'll give Salome a  go - I love The Four Last Songs but not keen on his tone poems. 

I know it's no disgrace not to be listening to opera but I have thought for far too long that I'm missing out. So Monteverdi here I come.

 

richypike
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

VicJayL - Dont get me wrong I AM moved by arias but the (sometimes) silly plots and recitatves along the way leave me 'dead' and the quartet at the end of Cosi is just noise! - oops that'll start a sub-debate.

Music to me is an emotional (visceral?) experience and have to agree that the suck it and see, dip-in approach appeals rather than an academic introduction. I'd rather study something I like rather than study to understand before listening.

I remember being so in awe of Nielsen's sym's 5 and 6 (Rattle) on Radio 3 twenty years ago that I got so much more pleasure from the music by digging out the scores from the library and books about Nielsen to further understand what I was listening to. Would never dream of doing it in reverse.

parla
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

Fair enough, Richypike. In any case, it's more adventurous to find out that you will like works of music, whenever this might happen due to the occasional circumstances.

However, music was not written for accidental listening and occasional encounters with unknown audience only. Besides, it's equally adventurous to discover why Mozart's Kv. 478 is an absolute masterpiece for the musicians and a bore for the common and accidental listener. But, anyway, since you are happy with your way, go for it, whatever it might be. (I'm just slightly worried of these few question marks you still have about what you might miss...in music).

Parla

JKH
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

Richypike, I agree strongly that any ‘academic’ interest in a particular work or genre and the further study/delving that may result, is always more productive after you’ve decided that you like (inadequate term, I know) the work itself, rather than as some preparatory exercise. Indeed, the latter approach might be guaranteed to put you off for life. You could read all the literature the world has to offer on wine, but it would be no guide to what you might like, and no substitute for actually drinking the stuff.
I think you raise a good point regarding the difficulty some people have with opera, namely that re it’s probably the musical form which has the most hurdles to get over in the form of conventions or norms, particularly so the earlier the opera. ‘Dry’ recitative, da capo arias, formal choruses, trios, spectacular showpiece arias etc are all conventions which composers adapted and evolved over the years. This is, of course, a huge generalisation, but getting over these conventions – or simply ignoring them – is something that I suppose most opera lovers come to terms with eventually in some degree or another. I’ve been listening to and attending opera for many years, but I’d still find sitting through a Monteverdi opera a bit of a slog, even though I adore much of his other music.
Forgive me if these recommendations have been posted by others, but I’d be tempted to look at later operas which are more ‘through-composed’ such as Verdi’s Don Carlos or Otello (quite possibly my ‘favourite’ Italian opera) and which do not have such clear conventional demarcation between recitative/aria, but accommodate them within a more homogenised structure, if you’ll forgive a rather pretentious term. Act 2 of Otello is one of the tautest, most concentrated musical/theatrical experiences from beginning to end, but still contains at least three arias and one duet which have independently gained fame and popularity as single pieces, but which are seamlessly integrated into the whole. The same, I think, goes for the Strauss which has already been mentioned and, of course, there’s Wagner – but I suppose the real message is ‘suck it and see’.
I know that you said you had mixed feelings about Grimes, but I’d still give Britten a crack – try Billy Budd and see if you can listen to it without thinking in terms of recitative/aria. I really don’t for one second want to appear didactic or patronising, but you’ve obviously got a great love of the human voice as your previous posts show.

JKH

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tagalie
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

Agreed on much of what you say, JKH, especially the suck it and see bit. Different strokes for different folks. Personally, I can watch or listen to L'Orfeo again and again, L'Incoronazione less so. There are many excellent dvds and cds of the former.

However, as much as I enjoy most of Britten, I balk a bit at Billy Bud. A bit too twee for my tastes. OK, perhaps no librettist would want to reproduce realistic sailor-talk but this lot are at the other extreme and I can't warm to Bud himself in the opera. Terence Stamp in the film finds much in the character that's missing in the opera performances I've seen.

For an earthy, realistic libretto and superb music I'd recommend Lady Macbeth of Mtsentsk or anything by Janacek, particularly since both are from the musical period that seems to appeal to richpike. Which I can relate to. Coming from rock to classical, everyone used to tell me to start with the core composers - Beethoven, Mozart etc.. My entry point was Sibelius, VW, Shostakovich. That mainstream bunch just seemed to 'stiff' for me. Only later did I come to appreciate them.

parla
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

"Suck it and See", eventually, is the way to approach Opera. Something like a "blind date" or "dating in the darkness". If it comes, it will come, if it doesn't, it will overtake us and so on. The comparison of music and wine was brilliant, JKH. I believe Die Jauberflote "tastes" as a vintage Cabernet-Sauvignon.

Some mature classical musicians told me that music is science with pleasure for them and pleasure with scientific means for the listener. That means the artist, who is going to deal with music, has to have enough knowledge (like a scientist) of a certain specific level and spectrum in order to perform, while the listener should be aware of the framework and the basic features of this knowledge, so that he/she may be able to comprehend and follow what is being performed and, eventually, what the specific work is all about. In this way, you may appreciate equally "Le Nozze", Don Giovanni" and "Die Zauberflote". Otherwise, you may see someone to claim "Le Nozze" is a masterwork and "Die Zauberflote" a bore (and so on).

To reiterate what I have said before, the more you know, the better you comprehend and the better you choose. I remember the first time I listened to "Siegfried", I almost vomit ( I felt so dizzy with the plot and the elusively noisy music). After I studied a lot about Wagner as a composer (and a man), after I learned about the leit-motives, the wagnerian orchestration, the vocal role in the whole work and many more, I became a lifetime Wagnerian defender, while Wagner's music gives me the ultimate pleasure in the field of what is generally called Opera (Wagner refused to call his works as such).

After all, both JKH and Tagalie seem to happen to know enough (in one or the other way) to indulge in this form of Classical Music. Richypike seem to ignore almost everything. So, don't give him any advise judging from the level you have been already.

Parla

ddic
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RE: Where do I start with Opera?

This is exactly the method I've chosen to enter into the world of Opera. I've been a life-long classical music lover, especially sacred choral works. The only sub-genre that I never would broach was opera because of the outlandish vibrato present amongst  the Opera singers when comparing against the beautiful, dulcet, clean and harmonious tones of English choirs and awesome solo voices such as Dame Emma Kirkby. 

Well in 2010 I decided to explore opera, first through listening to recordings and gradually building up to attending a live performance at The Met in NYC in January 2012. I've always liked Wagner's music so it was easy to dive in and appreciate all of the symphonic works embedded within The Ring cycle. Along the way, I picked up Mozart's Die Zauberflote, which is great. I've watched 2 different performances (one in German and one in English) on DVD several times and I love it.

But the true test will be Gotterdammerung! It will be the first opera that I ever attend live and I just can't wait. And yes, I know I'm going out of sequence by starting at the end of the Ring with this one, but I just love the music in that extremely long opera, that I can't wait. Nearly six hour production with the best seats in The Met. I'm hoping it will be a great experience.

So, to summarize the original poster's request, my suggestion would be to consider jumping in the deep and just embrace it. As an aside, there was one work in the Choral repertoire that took me years and years to take in and appreciate: Hindemith's Requiem - When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd. Once I finally settled in and listened to it over and over, I simply loved it. Loved It!

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Bach's music consumes my life