A set of Dvorak symphonies
Sat, Oct 29 2011, 12:20AM
I read a recent article on Dvorak and I thought it would be nice to add a complete set of his symphonies to my music collection. However, I've noticed that every set I look at splits some symphonies between cds, which is unacceptable to me. The highly regarded Kertesz LSO set does this well as the Kubelik set. The only set I've found which doesn't split symphonies between cds is the Berlin Staatskapelle with Suitner conducting. Any other suggestions? Is the Suitner the one to go for? I'm probably only buying one Dvorak set for the forseeable future, so I don't mind spending a few extra dollars to get a good one that doesn't split symphonies between cds.
Sat, Oct 29 2011, 3:22PM
#2
RE: A set of Dvorak symphonies
Dear Dale42,
I do understand your frustration with works split across discs but if you could make an exemption I would recommend Kubelik on DG. The performances are uniformally well played and Kubelik was consistently excellent in this repetoire.
I have no idea as to you record collection but don't pass up the chance to get a set of the symphonic poems. They are fantastic works - it is inexplicable to me why they are not more popular as they are as fine as much of Tchaikovsky's output. 'The Wood Dove' is my personal favourite for sentimental reasons, but they are splendid.
I have to admit that once I upset a friend by remarking that the best of Dvorak's symphonic works equally or eclipsed Brahms. It was a rather provocative comment but when I listen to his best work I end up thinking I might have had half a point at the time!
Sat, Oct 29 2011, 4:45PM
#3
RE: i
The one with Suitner on Berlin label is good indeed, very credible recording and quite affordable. The Kubelik too, but I have some reservations for the recording quality (it's old, anyway).
However, if you happen to have a very good hi-fi system, you ought to go for some individual performances on SACD, at least for the last four Symphonies (6-9), like the very convincing late Kreizberg on Pentatone, the very exciting Fischer on Channel Classics, the emotional Macal on Exton and some with Janssons on RCO live. The first five Symphonies sound somehow uneven and inferior to the late ones. As for the Symphonic poems, I have to agree with Naupilus, but, still for me, the last three Symphonies are his masterworks (there are very few Finales in the symphonic repertory like the 7th, no such ingenuity like in the 8th, while the 9th speaks for itself, all the way). For me and not only, arguably, his greatest achievement is his Cello Concerto (the only work of Dvorak which is unrivalled)! And we should not forget his amazing production in Chamber Music.
As for the Brahms/Dvorak comparison, Naupilus, I believe they complement each other rather than they are prone to comparison. I appreciate Brahms's refinement, detailed work and consistency for the highest possible standards, while I get wild with Dvorak's ease to excite and beguile with an abundance of musical ideas, ingenuity, impressive orchestration and many more. We need both, in the same way.
Parla
Sat, Oct 29 2011, 5:15PM
#4
RE: Brahms/Dvorak
Parla
Just to clarify, I was passing on an impression rather than a defining position regarding Dvorak and Brahms. I guess the point of my leg pulling all those years ago was to suggest a friend take a harder look at Dvorak than he had at the time.
I must admit though that when I try to make a play list involving Brahms I usually place him with Bach & Schoenberg, sometimes Reger. But that is a subject for another thread...
Sat, Oct 29 2011, 9:17PM
#5
RE: Brahms/Dvorak
You could always stream using Spotify, there's plenty there. Kubelik was always the favoured but I love what Marin Alsop is doing with the Baltimore Symphony.
Sun, Oct 30 2011, 1:07AM
#6
RE: A set of Dvorak symphonies
Kertesz is almost unmatched in the early symphonies but the set that seems to grow on people over the years as its mass of subtleties are revealed is the Rowicki recorded at, almost, the same time as the Kertesz with the same orchestra.
With so many great performances of individual symphonies at medium or bargain prices it seems wasteful to invest in a single world view of these forever fascinating masterpieces.
Sun, Oct 30 2011, 1:22AM
#7
RE: Brahms/Dvorak RE: Brahms/Dvorak
If you want a complete set go for Kubelik or Witold Rowicki (the latter an excellent set, which however also splits a few symphonies across disks). A wonderful cycle well worth getting also exists by Vaclav Neumann with the Czech Philharmonic, issued by Suprahon. I'm not sure how it distributes symphonies across discs. However, I think preference should be given to the artistic quality rather than whether or not it is splitting symphonies across disks - an all too familiar thing we all had to do with our LPs!
If you are happy with individual symphonies then I'd get the last 3 from Giulini. The LPO bargain set by EMI is excellent. At some stage the Concertgebouw offered the 8th with Giulini as a free download, but if that's no longer available then you can buy nos. 7 & 9 from Giulini with the Concertgebouw (more recent recordings than the LPO).
The most spectacular 9th I've ever heard (and seen live) is by Celibidache, now available as DVD, that really brings all the colours out of the orchestra, much "slower" but much richer, a true musical event.
Sun, Oct 30 2011, 2:58PM
#8
RE: A set of Dvorak symphonies
Dale, two sets which don't split any of the symphonies are:
Jarvi/RSNO/Chandos
Pesek/RLPO and Czech PO/Virgin
I slightly prefer the former as recorded performances, but the latter set is much cheaper (one of those boxed black Virgin sets) and has lots of couplings.
Whether you go for these or another set - Kubelik, Kertesz and Rowicki are also excellent - I hope you enjoy your listening. The 5th and 6th symphonies especially I think are joys.
Mon, Oct 31 2011, 12:32AM
#9
RE: A set of Dvorak symphonies
Dvorak symphonies, a complete set ! - Do you like watching paint dry?
What, too left-wing for you? Sad.
Try Langgaard, he's frequently out in orbit. You'll enjoy being there with him.
Mon, Oct 31 2011, 8:45AM
#10
RE: A set of Dvorak symphonies
Dvorak symphonies, a complete set ! - Do you like watching paint dry?
At the risk of setting off yet another angry tirade against liberal conspiracies to destroy civilisation as we know it (don't you just bet the cat keeps a low profile in that household when the computer is turned on! [metaphor]) just what is the point of negative comments of this kind? It's not just the good "doctor" here, it's the whole "composers/interpretations/performers you don't like/hate" trend here lately.
There is a world of difference, it seems to me, between constructive criticism on the one hand, and focussing on what you, personally, dislike on the other. What does it add to any debate for me to state that for instance Lieder leaves me cold, that I actually dislike its sound? It says nothing about Lieder but a lot about me if I claim it's inferior in some way because I don't like it. It seems helpful (and interesting) to hear what someone prefers, and the reasons for it, rather than look to list reasons why music or musicians don't make your grade.
I guess it has something to do with having a positive or a negative outlook on life (and thus music), generally. Or needing an outlet for venting spleen against one's various bête noire, as seems to be the case here.
Vic.
Mon, Oct 31 2011, 10:57AM
#11
RE: A set of Dvorak symphonies
I think you and others are being a tad harsh on the good Dr Brodsky, Vic. After all, despite the fact that sharp objects aren't allowed in the treatment facility where he resides (and the crayons which are permitted are obviously of little use in internet communication) it's an eloquent testimony to the dedication and broad mindedness of his team of carers that he is allowed access to valuable electrical equipment, albeit on a closely supervised basis.
JKH
Mon, Oct 31 2011, 11:13AM
#12
RE: A set of Dvorak symphonies
Yes Vic is right, what have we become, individuals. These forums are not here to express your views just how you like. We need rules and structure. Let's all join hands, form a circle and start singing. We'll all choose new names first, no sorry JKH you can't have 'Great leader and teacher' that's already gone, Vic picked that one. Now let's sing, Vic will lead us. 'It waved above ........
Mon, Oct 31 2011, 11:43AM
#13
RE: A set of Dvorak symphonies
Yes Vic is right, what have we become, individuals. These forums are not here to express your views just how you like. We need rules and structure. Let's all join hands, form a circle and start singing. We'll all choose new names first, no sorry JKH you can't have 'Great leader and teacher' that's already gone, Vic picked that one. Now let's sing, Vic will lead us. 'It waved above ........
...and at what time of the day does the facility at which you are inter...-er-housed have its sing-song?
Mon, Oct 31 2011, 6:14PM
#14
RE: A set of Dvorak symphonies
Unless you're a completeist or huge fan of a particular conductor, I wouldn't go for anybody's complete set. I like Kertesz in most of them, #8 a particular favourite with a superb Scherzo Capriccioso as filler on the original lp.
The 4th, considered perhaps his weakest, is difficult to bring off convincingly. The best I've heard is an old CFP lp with the Prague Phil conducted by Neumann. He doesn't try to find anything deep, just pulls out all the emotional stops and plays the bejaysus out of it. In a good, old-fashioned Supraphonish acoustic with a reverberation time of about half an hour, the whole thing sounds wonderful.
The Naxos set is more than acceptable, especially in the first 3.
Fri, Nov 18 2011, 1:35AM
#15
RE: A set of Dvorak symphonies
I won't listen to anyone dismiss Dvorak's early symphonies. Admittedly he had trouble with structure in his early years, but the music itself is as tuneful, characterful and rich as anything he wrote. If you want to try just one of the early symphonies, the 3rd is the most successful.
I have several sets and a few singles from sets. Overall, my recommendation is for Pesek on Virgin. Good modern sound (most of the other sets are older) and characterful performances.
Of the others, Gunzenhauser on Naxos is very convincing (helped by a native orchestra), but the sound is, er, early Naxos with all that implies. Still worth hearing if you're a fan.
Kertesz I have to rule out for several reasons: first, the recordings desperately need a thorough remastering, being congested, over-bright and lacking warmth. Also, he takes all the repeats in the early symphonies, which frankly does Dvorak no favours at all. Plus, as you may have heard, the works are split across CDs.
Suitner sounds small in scale, both orchestrally and in interpretation. The sound is a dull grey-brown.
Anguelov on Oehms is a bit square and rough in interpretation, and the sound is unflatteringly studio-bound. 4 and 6 are the best of his set.
OTHERS I'VE HEARD:
What I've heard of Jarvi was pretty good, except for a couple of gestures which were a bit self-conscious.
Rowicki in 1-3 was decent but the sound lacked detail, and the performance isn't particularly Czech in character.
Alsop's 7 and 8 were disappointing. She pushes and pulls the music, depriving it of spontaneity. The sound isn't great (Dvorak needs a rich, clear palette).
I don't care for Kubelik's way with the music, and Neumann is too bland for me to bother with.
Dvorak symphonies, a complete set ! - Do you like watching paint dry?