American Symphony Recordings

I just saw this thread. Interesting, albeit something of a curate's egg, of course—yet what isn't in Internetland?

As a Yank born and bred, halfway through his 68th year, however, I must reply to Mr. Taylor, whom I have quoted above. So some of the USA's values appeal less to you than do others? You leave me scratching my head, sir. I frankly can't see any damn American "value" worthy of anything but scorn and contempt! But perhaps you're just demonstrating your own generosity of spirit. If you are, please know that, though it speaks highly of you, the country I now live in—hardly the same one into which I was born long ago—doesn't merit it.

May I add, however, that I find your naming of Walter Piston something I can happily agree with. A measurable amount of his music is indeed worth a second and third listen, and that is something that few with functioning ears would ever say about the music of Harold Shapero, Mr. Tobin being virtually a rule-proving exception, or that of most of the other composers mentioned elsewhere on this thread. A recognizable musical personality and individual style emerges from his music—something far less generic than the denatured Brahms with the odd splash of Tabasco sauce that sums up virtually all American music not similarly damnable as the academic serialism and postserialism of the forties through the seventies or its cheap, mind-numbing follow-up, the minimalism of Adams, Riley, and their even more contemptible contemporary, Glass—and as true as it is that his music may hardly be better than that of John Field or Lortzing or Reznicek, none on these shores save Carter and Crumb have ever reached higher, and even I am now too old probably to ever listen to the last two's compositions again with the pleasure they gave me thirty years ago.

Having attended perhaps five hundred New York Philharmonic concerts in my life and, rather more to the point, having been an excited student and then a twenty-something during the Bernstein years, I can but say that I now see that era very ruefully, understanding as I do that very little of the "American" music Bernstein pushed had merit as motivation for its promotion, Ives's being probably the sole exception, however partial it may be. (Certainly LB never played any of Piston's music, at least to my archivally unconfirmed recollection.) Very few of the most knowledgeably musical people I admired and learned from in my youth had a good opinion of Bernstein. I am not proud to say that I laughed behind their back at them then. Though they have all passed on, they would be well within their rights to be laughing now at me!

Far too much said already, I suspect. Adieu.

Bernstein was the greatest charlatan to ever mount the conductors rostrum.

I understand the reaction against Bernstein. Apart from my own dislike of the way he pushes and pulls the music about, which strikes me as self-display rather than musical expression, the adulation with which he is regarded by American critics and fans is off-putting -- according to them, if Bernstein recorded any work, that recording is automatically the benchmark. Such an attitude has surely not had a good effect on American musical culture.

Regarding American music, I made a small investigation a couple of years ago and found some gems: the Barber disc conducted by Zinman contains I think all his best orchestral work, very fine stuff. I like Hanson's 2nd symphony and also his 6th, and the Naxos CD of his organ concerto etc is fine pastoral stuff, well worth hearing. Copland's ballets are a little kitsch for me, but his concert works are quite enjoyable; I like Mata's record of the 3rd symphony, but feel there's yet more to be made of that music. Schuman's early symphonies are nice neo-classical Hindemithian pieces; the later symphonies are post-Mahler dirges, good if you like that sort of thing (which I do).

Bernstein didn't really want an orchestra in front of him, he would have much prefered a mirror to gaze into while he danced around like a demented fool. Karajan was the second biggest charlatan to mount the rostrum with his eyes closed I am controlling you all with my thoughts routine. Thank god we don't suffer fools such as those anymore, ...or do we!

Bernstein chose to spill his guts all over the stage in a bonfire of self regarding over sentimental egotism. Not a pretty sight and not a pretty sound.

How does the fact that he was uninhibited, over sentimental and perhaps not always a pretty sight show that he was especially self-regarding or egotistical? Although he may have had these to some degree, I would have thought that when it came to self-regard and ego in conductors, he wouldn't be at the top of the list.  

Ted

I'm in no position to give a proper answer to your question, sir, but you may be interested in the following. During the seventies and eighties I worked at the Lincoln Center, and I got to see quite a few of Bernstein's orchestral rehearsals (he was then Laureate Conductor of the Philharmonic, no longer the music director, of course). He was all business (well, more or less) in rehearsal—no emoting, no gymnastics whatsoever. So the leaps and lunges, the two-fisted baton crunches and the podium foxtrots, that are indelibly associated with him in the public mind were seen by the orchestra and the audience at the same time. In short, whatever else he was—and no doubt about it, in concert he was frequently a tremendously exciting presence, sometimes more so than the music he performed—he was certainly also pretty darn calculating.

A year or two before Stravinsky died, the composer gave an extended interview to the Atlantic magazine. In it he remarked at one point that he had been pleased to learn that Bernstein was going to conduct Les Noces with the NYP in the new season. Stravinsky went on to say, a bit wickedly, 'I am curious to see where he will jump.'