Anybody still listen to LPs?

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NiklausVogel
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I do!

When CDs appeared I was one of many collectors who junked their entire vinyl collections, and, for some years, I marvelled in the shiny new sound.

Then, about a decade ago I rediscovered vinyl. I may be one of those recalcitrant Luddites who are suspicious on principle of the "let's put all our eggs in the digital basket" credo, but I cannot hear the same depth of soundstage, the sense of bows on strings, the humanness of phrasing and nuance with CDs, fine though they are for the car.

For me, nothing that digital can offer compares with, say, a 1960s Decca Kingsway Hall production on vinyl.

Am I a lone voice crying in the wilderness?

 

tagalie
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

I certainly listen to all my old Lyrita stuff. Many of those recordings would give today's best a run for their money. And there are still vinyl discs awaiting transfers that do the originals justice - some of those mid-60s DG Karajan recordings for instance (Sibelius 4, Prokofiev 5).

But my favourite recording to prove to listeners that the very best vinyl can knock its cd counterpart sideways is Frankie Goes to Hollywood 'Welcome to the Pleasure Dome'.

richard103
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

I find that LPs have a warmth, richness and depth of sound that is simply not present on CDs.  The latter have a cold synthetic sound that is nothing like the experience of hearing music live.  I do not rule out the possibility that the digital technology may one day surpass the sound of LPs but they are still a long way off.

Laraine
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

Not any more. I seldom get time alone so I can take a lease on the living room to put my hi fi on. I'd soon get interrupted and then have a struggle to hide my irritability. I don't even get to listen to my CDs through the hi fi. But there is one point in favour of CDs: there is less distortion when they are played on cheap equipment (like my 15/16-year-old Philips "ghetto blaster" CD/Radio/cassette player). I don't even look through my LPs if I can help it. It just starts "I want" fits. (I have only about 360 CDs against about 800 LPs). I also remember being distracted by the irritating clicks that appeared no matter how carefully I handled my LPs. I'm also getting increasingly clumsy and CDs are much easier to use without fear of damage to the surface.

Laraine
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I'm sorry you junked all your LPs

I hope you managed to sell them rather than dump them! I suspect I would have trouble getting anything for my collection. As a buyer and seller of CDs on the TradeMe auction site, I notice Classical music doesn't sell very well (but maybe it sells better in UK than it does in NZ). It would be even harder to sell on LP. Many of the performances I have on LP would also no longer be acceptable to me. My tastes started changing the moment I first heard Harnoncourt and his Concentus Musicus group.

tagalie
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

I agree, Laraine, with your comments re. the convenience of cds, the ability to get decent sound out of cheap equipment, and the fact that lps have a very limited life span, even if handled carefully. I had this discussion with my son, who was going through the retro phase a while back and lauding the advantages of vinyl. Yes, vinyl can still sound better though I would say that on average, cd produces better quality especially in terms of bass definition. Part of the issue with cd recordings is that engineers are still trying to produce a realistic, full and sweet top end. Listen to the VW Sym 2 (original version) under Hickox for proof that it can be done.

But anybody who wrestled to set up a tone arm, level out a turntable, maintain a clean stylus, rid discs of static and dust, appreciates the coming of cd. Not to mention anybody who ever lent out an lp or took one to a party. I still play my old lps, on high-quality equipment. But every time I do I'm aware I'm deducting from their life span.

mikii1977
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

I only started listening to them last year! They were pretty much on the way out when I got into to music, so I'd never really thought about collecting them until I heard some at a friend's house and realised that they sounded how I'd always wanted my CD player to.

Since then I've built up quite a collection, although I still think that CDs have a few advantages when it comes to the big stuff, and I've invested far too much time and money to stop listening to them now.

It's a shame that there are so few new classical releases on vinyl, especially as other genres have seen something of a renaissance recently. I certainly intend to carry on buying what I can find. For all the limitations, there is something that just sounds right when I hear a good record.

Incidentally, I've finally found a CD player that comes close to sounding as good!

 

 

grahammusto
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

CDs were virtually out of date when they were introduced. The upper frequency limit of 20khz and with loads of irrelevant data. SACD and DVD Audio would be the answer, but the latter would be expensive and both restricted in choice.

 In 1958 Audio Fidelity produced LPs with a frequency range of 16hz to 25kz, declaring that the frequencies that could be felt rather than heard were just as important.

I compare my listening to the sounds heard in a good concert hall accoustic. I have heard a 'sheen' to violins in the concert hall which has never been heard on a CD, but has been heard on some Decca vinyl recordings. I have also felt low notes from an organ in a concert hall, but not heard them. In spite of tape hiss on old recordings, crackle etc., I still think a good vinyl is superior. Barbirolli's recording of 'Introduction and Allegro' (Elgar) is, in my opinion, superior on the EMI vinyl to the remastered CD. CDs can be over bright compared with the concert hall experience and lacking in atmosphere.

mozart41
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

Yes, thank goodness I have my old but still very efficient Panasonic SL18 up and turning again. Some LP's do sound more "full" in body than their CD counterparts, but this very particularly in respect of older recordings first made on LP which have since been transferred to CD versions. Fricsay's 1953 Pathetique with the Berlin Philharmonic was rightly described as a milestone of the gramophone; but listening to the CD Archipel transfer one would have been forgiven for thinking it was a milestone of the biscuit tin. I have numerous LP's whose CD transfers I have found to be either restrictive in their CD transfer as to be frustrating, or "digitalised" into a squeaky clean ambience for each and every section of the orchestra that may make the new version sound more like a "real" orchestra, but that loses in the process the pith and excitement that made the original recording, despite its limitations, perhaps a classic. On my Mac I use a recording application called Audio Hijack, and for a friend and fellow music lover of my own ripening age I sometimes transfer classic old LP performances into my computer, then burn them to CD. They are MUCH preferrable, often, to the commercial transfers, albeit perhaps even with the odd ticks and all. As for playing LP's, to give just one example: Beecham's mono LP version of Berlioz's Fantastique Sympony was unforgettable, a classic. Two years later in 1961 he made another recording, in stereo: good, but not great like the mono one. And it is the stereo that has been reissued on EMI Great Recordings of the Century. Well, the great Beecham recording of that symphony, as I say, was his previous mono one—and I thus transferred it into my computer and dubbed it to CD. Beats the EMI CD hands down. 

NiklausVogel
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

tagalie wrote:

But my favourite recording to prove to listeners that the very best vinyl can knock its cd counterpart sideways is Frankie Goes to Hollywood 'Welcome to the Pleasure Dome'.

That's a coincidence! I have the 12" single of "Relax" which I always play to non-classical vinyl sceptics. It's always fun to watch their jaws drop open. Trevor Horn certainly knew what he was doing!

For classical music lovers it's usually the 1969 Ansermet/NPO "Firebird" - the CD remastering doesn't even come close. Similarily, for opera lovers it's the opening of the 1961 Karajan/Decca "Otello" (another one they've botched on the most recent CD transfer). Nice to see that I'm not alone in my adherence to the old black discs.

Laraine
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs? RE: Anybody s

Oh, I remember all the horrors you mention, tagalie. I would also like to add I never put on an LP unless I could sit down and listen. Those styli were so expensive! Because I'm the only one in the household who enjoys Classical music, this has always meant I needed to have the house to myself. That doesn't really happen these days. I might have the main house to myself when my husband goes out for a few hours, but I never know when his sister (88) might interrupt me. Switching off a CD in mid-note (which I often find myself having to do) is one thing; doing it to an LP is quite another! It would certainly be interesting to compare some of the LPs that I also have on CD, but on my set-up it would be difficult. The Quad 33-303 is much much older than CDs, which need a setting of about 4 on the 33 control unit as against one of 6 for LPs.

I do remember Gramophone critics complaining constantly about the sound quality of the early CDs, but gradually these complaints faded out and I even saw comments to the effect that the CD sounded better than the LP version. Alas, I don't subscribe to Gramophone any more; it's no longer affordable, despite the fact that the pound is now worth about NZ$2.11 whereas in the days when I subscribed it was more like NZ$3.

pjberr
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

Certainly do and bemoaned the day I let my old vinyl collection go to a young fellow at my garage sale. At least he was thrilled to have them. Currently I have rebuilt that collection and gone far beyond it so at least there is some feeling of restoration there. 

Analog is currently the only way to get the the whole truth and nothing but the truth in high fidelity music reproduction. DVD Audio is, in my opinion, a close second almost undistinguishable from the original. With digital bitrates and sampling rates at levels that will allow fitting an albums worth of music onto a CD, there are compromises in conversion. Losses of entire frequencies at the high and low end of the spectrum as an example, detail on highly transient passages as another. Then the conversion process analog to digital and back again employs interpolation circuitry that calculates what the sound should be between the digital samples and fills it in, accurate or not.

There is garbage introduced on both AD and DA legs of the process and is further muddied by the quality of the equipment containing these nasty bits known as DAC Chips. ADC Chips would only appear on a DVD recorder or DAT deck but are responsible for that bitrate/sampling rate that also defines reproduction quality. Would rather listen to snap, crackle and pop than a poor sample of an interpolated sound based on only part of the whole 'picture' buggered by cheap electronics.

Do like CDs for their convenience factor, DVD Audio sounds truly amazing and I can't tell it from vinyl, haven't heard SACD yet but I don't see how it can beat the now defunct DVD-Audio. Oh yes, classical vinyl at the thrift stores tends to be in excellent shape and dirt cheap, treasures abound.

Cheers!

 

SpiderJon
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

I very, very rarely listen to vinyl any more (despite having a turntable set up, and LPs to hand).  I very rarely listen to CDs any more (ditto CD player and CDs).

For better or worse (and I'm reluctant to get into an inevitably subjective 'argument' about what sounds better) the vast majority (~85%) of my music is now digital, and streamed from a server via a Squeezebox* to my hi-fi.  

http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/products/squeezebox-duet.html (no connection except as a happy user)

I'd actually quite like to be a die-hard vinyl junkie, treasuring my collection of low stamper number  Decca 'ED1' SXL or Mercury Living Presence LPs.

But it's just a fact that I can listen to a far, far wider range of music via a digital source than I could ever afford to using vinyl, and, to be frank, I am not sure I can personally discriminate sufficiently* between the quality of analogue (ie,vinyl) and digital (be it CD, high-bitrate mp3 or lossless, like flac) for it to affect my enjoyment. I also can't take vinyl on train journeys or to the office.

* this is an important qualifying term!  There may well be a difference, but the difference may not crucial.

For me, ultimately, it's the music that matters, not the medium.

Spider

 

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Gregam
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

Nope, I am one of those who did not*. Kept the TT, too!

When the digital moment came, I simply accumulated cd's for the convenience of the medium, making marketers happy and myself miserable by the (orginally) abysmal sound. (I have since got rid of many cds)

I did some searching and investing in an effort to improve the sound of digital -- and succeeded to a certain degree... but of course, my TT still sounds much better in all respects. It's also a matter of investment: "good" cd players are outrageously expensive, well beyond my means.

 

By the way, someone noted that digital has not yet caught up with analogue.

I'm not sure that is still the case: blue ray has very high resolution and listening to a BR music disc was a memorable experience!

On the other hand, all those having read my last sentence may now proceed to forget that useless bit of info: there are practically no music discs (reportedly there are 5-6!), nor is there interest to launch a BR music only library...

 

So, back to our ole' grinders!

 

*trash my vinyl collection, that is...

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NiklausVogel
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RE: Home

Responses so far have been heartening. I don't feel so much of a freak now!

Of course there are drawbacks. The "japanese tea ceremony", as a friend calls it, of preparing the record and stylus for play is a deterrent to some. But should music be something for which you don't have to make sacrifices?

Yes, you have to get up every 20 minutes or so and turn the thing over. The Bohm/DG "Tristan" may get each act ininterrupted onto one CD, but it's the LPs that most completely capture the Festspielhaus acoustic.

Yes, there are occasional pops and clicks, but I find myself so drawn into the performance with vinyl that I can tune them out. Also, the better your turntable, the lower the surface noise. And is total silence actually a natural background for music?

In my experience the continual deterioration thing is overstated. I have favourite LPs which must be 40+ years old and, with suitable care, are still relatively silent. (I may have sold my entire collection in the mid-80s, but I have most of it back now via e-bay and a couple of very good local shops.).

Of course I buy CDs, otherwise 30 years of recordings would be unavailable to me, and there are no equivalent LPs to compare them with. It's just a pity that, with most pop/rock and jazz classics now finding a new audience for vinyl, the classical market (with the exception of Testament) hasn't really bothered.

Pure Pleasure Records are a good source for classic DG/Decca/Mercury/Phillips repressings on 180g vinyl...expensive, but listen to the CD of Ataulfo Argenta's "Espana" , then switch to the newly recut vinyl and there's no competition. And, inexplicably, the legendary 1958 Alwyn/LSO/Decca "1812" disc has never appeared on CD except as a Japanese import. It's still available from Pure Pleasure as an LP, and it still sounds amazing.

All this is, I accept, a matter of personal preferences and tolerance levels, and convenience plays a big part.

Vinyl has completely vanished from the pages of Gramophone. It's encouraging to find that there are so many adherents among its readership who still feel as I do!

otterhouse
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RE: Anybody still listen to LPs?

I have my answer in the form of a youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jyy2tOwK1I&fmt=18

agree? or not?

Rolf