Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
Sun, Sep 11 2011, 12:57AM
#2
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
Bored or boring, Troyen1, you fail to be annoying. I'm sure you enjoy what you're doing and believing. The difference between us is that I embrace all forms and aspects of the Classical Music (even if I consider Chamber music of a pure and most musical nature), but you seem to enjoy (and appreciate) mostly "the bigger the better".
I wonder in this framework how the Baroque, the Classical and early Romantic era composers fit in, since their orchestra is lighter, leaner and looks more conventional. In particular the Operas of Mozart are almost of Chamber music nature vis a vis Verdi's or even Rossini's. The choral works of Bach are of utmost simplicity as far as the orchestra writing and the choral parts are seldom of "heavy" nature. Most of the music of Bach is of Chamber music nature, or pure chamber (instrumental included). Of course, there are always these nice extremely "heavy" transcriptions by plenty (notorious or less) conductors.
Anyway, I'm sure you have an answer for everything and you are happy with it. Sorry, for the...boredom; I didn't mean to keep you here and, with a different perception than a strong conviction, we may have the chance to find some common grounds. I'm sure you will find some other threads to have "intelligent" exchanges on which performance is...whatever you may call it, or which conductor is...of this or that nature, and not what is the importance or the role of Mozart's works in the minor mode or the significance of E flat major in Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven's works.
So long,
Parla
Wed, Sep 14 2011, 12:39AM
#3
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
Oh, Troyen1, probably you are not a "simple soul" and, maybe, you look or behave as "belligerent child". As to who reads each other' s posts and "who avoids answering questions", I leave it to you along with any "Freudian slip(s)".
I think I should accept the fact that you see "the more the merrier" (the bigger the better), but you have, one day, to wonder (at least) whether "less is more" (this is not only mine). If you get this, we won't be that far apart. In any case, I listen extensively to Symphonic, Choral and Operatic repertoire, mostly because they give me the benefit of the "colours", the ambience and the "glory" of sound (sometimes along with La Follie de Grandeur) in music. However, when I have to deal with the purity of form, I have to go to Chamber, Instrumental, Lieder, Vocal Ensembles, etc.
I initiated this tread with a view to bringing some awareness for a form of Classical Music that desrves to be more exposed and more involved in our listening experience, but absolutely not at the detriment of any other. I am quite content that quite a few people responded very positively and I understand those who didn't (Caballe, for obvious reasons, and you, dear Troyen1 - definitely not a "wimp"). I am very glad, also, that a conductor established an almost identical blog in Gramophone. It is quite interesting that a man of the big symphonic orchestras and opera (grand included) can speak openly about the value and wealth of merits of this form. (And he is not the only one...).
Parla
To parla,
Please do not make assumptions on what I listen to simply because of my forum name. My musical interests include appreciation of chamber music as well as music written for larger forces. We all have our musical preferences thank goodness. What I dislike is when people attempt to present their preferences as fact. For instance, some may regard Borodin's string quartet no 2 as an inferior work to any by Beethoven. They may be right but who cares as long as I enjoy it. I guess some would think it "slush" too!
Wed, Sep 14 2011, 1:03AM
#4
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
Extremely sorry for my foolish assumption, but your adopted name leads inevitably to these kind of necessary conclusions.
I'm very glad that you don't exclude chamber music from your listening experience. As for Borodin's 2nd String Quartet is second to none. It's simply different, but it's great, pure and very inspired music. It's worthwhile to explore the rather vast chamber music of Borodin. It's truly fascinating and involving. Try his String Quintet, by the way.
However, Caballe, we have to identify the "great" and call it with its name. It's not only a matter of "taste" (which still remains undefined, since we use it at our own convenience), but of certain values in Music too.
All the best,
Parla
Wed, Sep 14 2011, 2:03AM
#5
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
Thank-you for the recommendation of Borodin's quintet. I'm still not sure what you mean when you talk of "great" works. Do you mean they have reached sufficient longevity and by concensus have achieved greater merit than other works? The current Mahler love-in, while hardly a chamber music composer, makes it appear to be so.
Wed, Sep 14 2011, 11:08AM
#6
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
It's about this never-ending story on "taste" versus "values". Having studied and worked with musicians and artists in general, I cannot accept that Mozart's Symphony No. 41 is "great", because, simply, many people happen to like it and his First Piano Quartet, which is almost ignored by everybody (except some musicians and Chamber Music fans), is almost nothing.
In other words, we have to attain the "heights" of Music, not to baptize anything we like (if that's "taste") as such. So, the "consensus" is about what musicians, artists, professors and producers, etc., in the course of History, agreed on where and which these values are, based on the rules, laws, regulations, etc. that define and develop this form of Art. Rembrandt is one of the very "peaks" of painting. You are entitled not to like him, but you are not allowed to "degrade" him or to dismiss him.
I hope I am clear, this time.
Parla
Tue, Sep 20 2011, 12:39AM
#7
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
If anyone wishes to either visit or revisit this thread, I think it's eventually high time to discuss something tangible and substantive regarding Chamber Music.
So, please kindly let me know (and let's open a discussion) about the most important works in the different fields of Chamber Music, namely Violin Sonatas, Cello Sonatas, Flute Sonatas, Clarinet Sonatas, Piano Trios, String Trios, Piano Quartets, String Quartets, Piano Quintets, String Quintets, String Sextets and even further (where the choices are very limited, since there are not so many Septets or Octets, etc.). Comments on performances are welcome as well.
As a starting point, I give my preference on the most popular categories:
Violin Sonata: by Franck.
Cello Sonata : Beethoven's op102,2
Piano Trio : Schubert' s second, op.100
Piano Quartet : Mozart' s First, KV 478
String Quartet : Beethoven' s op. 131 and 132 (impossible to choose between them).
Piano Quintet : Brahms, op. 34
Piano Quintet (with Double Bass) : Schubert' s "Trout"
String Quintet : Schubert's (in C major)
I hope there must be some to get interested in a substantive discussion (role of these works in the composer's musical output, meaning, significance in musical history, etc.) about music, after all.
Parla
Fri, Oct 7 2011, 3:20PM
#8
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
I find myself compelled to welcome the decision of Gramophone people to vote for a Chamber Music CD as the Recording of the Year.
The Pavel Haas Quartet's recording of Dvorak Quartets 12 &13 is indeed a wonderful disc, though maybe not my first choice, but a great one altogether. The significant thing is the recognition of CDs of Chamber Music. It's a wonderful field fraught with still genuine brilliant recordings.
I sincerely hope this award may bring more listeners to this very important form of Classical Music.
Tue, Dec 27 2011, 2:49PM
#9
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Tue, Dec 27 2011, 5:40PM
#10
RE: Like it...
Here is somewhere Radio 3 excels with its lunchtime recitals, Wigmore Hall especially with its good acoustic. Yesterday enjoyed (recorded) live performances of Beethoven's clarinet trio & Mendelssohn piano trio. For recordings one of my top favourites alongside the Archduke, Ghost & Trout is Hummel's septet in the version from Lamar Crowson & the Melos Ensemble; great work, fabulous performance (originally l'Oiseux Lyre LP may be currently available on Decca CD).
Also on CD, the little known Louise Farrenc, a delightful clarinet trio and two piano quintets.
Wed, Dec 28 2011, 1:20AM
#11
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
Hummel' s two Septets exist in great recordings in the best recording label for Chamber Music, namely Praga Digitals. There are some very interesting recordings in obscure japanese labels (and sometimes in european marginal ones) of the two Septets in the form of Piano Quintet (in the same instrumentation as Schubert's "Trout"). If you managed to trace any recording of them (I think Brilliant recordings have initiated some recordings of Piano Quintets with Double Bass), go for them; they are delightful and great chamber music writing.
Farenc's chamber music is also interesting. A rare female figure in the field, after the "great" Clara Schumann and before Nadia Boulanger.
Chamber Music has much to offer; the more yhou explore it, the more you discover. Just try the Great and well-known composers' output and you'll find an abundance of magnificent or at least very interesting works (Haydn's Piano Trios, Mozart's superb and unique String Quintets, Beethoven's unrivalled Cello Sonatas, Schubert's amazing Piano Trios, Mendelssohn's great String Quintets, Schumann's intimate Piano Quartet along with the powerful String Quintet, both in E-flat major, and so on).
Parla
Wed, Dec 28 2011, 1:18PM
#12
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
Hummel's piano quintet Op87 is on the second side of the l'Oiseau Lyre LP, also his piano trios are worth hearing on a Dabringhaus & Grimm CD set.
Wed, Dec 28 2011, 5:44PM
#13
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
Hummel is an unjustly underrated composer. Indeed, his Piano Trios are excellent, if not brilliant, works in this field, worthy mostly of Mozart and Haydn rather than Beethoven or Schubert, despite they were composed in early 19th century. Apart from the very good recordings in MDG, you mentioned 33lp, there is a more authentic version with Pianoforte on Warner and the three more important of them on Chandos with the Borodin Trio.
On Dynamic, you may find the almost equally interesting Violin and Cello Sonatas as well as some Piano Music by Hummel.
Good exploration and eventual further listening,
Parla
Thu, Dec 29 2011, 12:49PM
#14
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
Thanks, Parla, I have the Dynamic CD of the Hummel violin/piano duos and one of their solo piano discs. The best solo piano of Hummel I've come across is from Danielle Laval on a French Auvidis Valois CD with the 24 etudes and the sonata Op 81, a major half hour work which is very Beethovenian with its fugal last movement. I've also got a lesser recording of the sonata on one of the Vox/Turnabout Hummel CDs.
Thu, Dec 29 2011, 2:27PM
#15
RE: Anyone interested in Chamber Music?
Yes, indeed the disc of Laval is very interesting, despite it is quite old and belongs to the...introuvables.
The Etudes exist also, in a fine version, in the american label Music and Arts, with an unknown but accomplished pianist. The Piano Sonatas, in their totality, existed in the now defunct (I'm afraid) american label Arabesque with the good pianist Ian Hobson. There are some interesting String Quartets on Hyperion, probably reissued on their budget label Helios.
Going to a similar field of composers, try the formidable Piano Trios of Pleyel, on a recent recording of the German label Gramola.
Parla
Oh, Troyen1, probably you are not a "simple soul" and, maybe, you look or behave as "belligerent child". As to who reads each other' s posts and "who avoids answering questions", I leave it to you along with any "Freudian slip(s)".
I think I should accept the fact that you see "the more the merrier" (the bigger the better), but you have, one day, to wonder (at least) whether "less is more" (this is not only mine). If you get this, we won't be that far apart. In any case, I listen extensively to Symphonic, Choral and Operatic repertoire, mostly because they give me the benefit of the "colours", the ambience and the "glory" of sound (sometimes along with La Follie de Grandeur) in music. However, when I have to deal with the purity of form, I have to go to Chamber, Instrumental, Lieder, Vocal Ensembles, etc.
I initiated this tread with a view to bringing some awareness for a form of Classical Music that desrves to be more exposed and more involved in our listening experience, but absolutely not at the detriment of any other. I am quite content that quite a few people responded very positively and I understand those who didn't (Caballe, for obvious reasons, and you, dear Troyen1 - definitely not a "wimp"). I am very glad, also, that a conductor established an almost identical blog in Gramophone. It is quite interesting that a man of the big symphonic orchestras and opera (grand included) can speak openly about the value and wealth of merits of this form. (And he is not the only one...).
Parla
Hark, what is that sound I hear?
Is it trumpets? The last trump?
I must have died ...of boredom.