Arrau or Brendel?
Fri, Jan 25 2013, 1:03PM
If you had to choose one complete set of the Beethoven piano sonatas, which of these two pianists' would you choose, taking sound and performance into account?
Fri, Jan 25 2013, 2:31PM
#2
RE: Arrau or Brendel?
Kempff, if you like a more lyrical approach to Beethoven, Gulda if you like your Beethoven to be fleet and mercurial, Gilels (sadly only 29 since he died before he could complete the set) for a combination of muscularity and lyricism, Arrau if you like your Beethoven considered and magisterial. These are my choices. I personally find Brendel too calculated and mannered. regards Anand
Fri, Jan 25 2013, 4:16PM
#3
RE: Arrau or Brendel?
£5 for the Brendel
Fri, Jan 25 2013, 5:02PM
#4
RE: Arrau or Brendel?
All mentioned pianists add their own style and accents to Beethoven's music, so there isn't one interpretation that towers above all others.
In addition to the ones already mentioned, Schnabel (unequalled depth of expression in some pieces, unacceptable (?) errors in others.)
Fri, Jan 25 2013, 5:34PM
#5
RE: Arrau or Brendel?
How about the recorded sound (the Arrau is 30 years older)?
Fri, Jan 25 2013, 10:18PM
#6
RE: Arrau or Brendel?
How about the recorded sound (the Arrau is 30 years older)?
Not really an issue to me.
I've got the set of Vanguard CD's here with Arrau and Szigeti playing the complete violin sonatas and Arrau's wonderful Beethoven playing makes one forget that the recording is from 1941.
Not to derail the thread but how do people value this set as opposed to his later remake with Grumiaux?
Fri, Jan 25 2013, 11:39PM
#7
RE: Arrau or Brendel?
Ah, Adrian, a question which it is impossible to answer. In his book on the piano Louis Kentner rated the 32 as amongst humankind's greatest achievements.
My own shelves carry complete sets from the young men in their 20s; Brendel's first (Vox) recordings and Barenboim's EMI set, through Schnabel to the elder statesman Arrrau and the grand old man in his late 70s & 80s, Backhaus with sundry other selections from Annie Fischer, Gilels, Moravec, Moiseiwitsch, Vasary, Richter-Haaser, Novaes (including a superb Op111 stunningly recorded) etc etc to "The Fuhrer's Pianist" Elly Ney.
If pushed to one set it would have to be Schnabel, but choice may often depend on my own mood; tough and uncompromizing Beethoven from Backhaus to something more gentle from Brendel or idiosyncratic from Barenboim. (Anand if you find Brendel too mannered & calculated perhaps you are talking of his most recent recordings?)
My choice recording purchase from last year was a DG 10 CD set entitled "The Liszt Legacy", a rather strange title as it contains little of his music and the only Liszt connnexion is Arrau's teacher Martin Krause. It's a collection of Westminster & American Decca recordings which all I think make their debut on CD. It contains Westminster recordings of Arrau in the Moonlight, Pathetique, Adieux, Appassionata & Hammerklavier. Slightly less magisterial than the Philips recordings and in fair sound, it was only afterwards I realized they must have been mono.
My real reason though for getting the set was for the last commercial recordings (originally 3LPs) made by Moiseiwitsch in 1961 including an unsurpassed Kreisleriana, a superb Carnaval and the Moonlight & Adieux which I have waited for years to be reissued ever since I captured the Schumann on open reel tape off the Third Programme on AM radio. But could I choose between him & the Arrau - not really. (The box also contains recordings by Lewenthal, de Larrocha & Petri).
No set can be perfect in 32 sonatas, some of the very greatest if not ultimately the greatest music ever written.
And they keep coming, Martin Roscoe, the young Chinese girl on EMI whose name currently escapes me, but will I ever purchase another set? I doubt it.... but then there's Kempff. Do his supporters recommend the stereo or mono sets as both appear to be currently available?
Sat, Jan 26 2013, 2:53AM
#8
RE: Arrau or Brendel?
Well if you are to choose only from Brendel and Arrau, then here's my comments.
I got both. Soundwise, Arrau's cycle has a rich (perhaps a bit too rich) and warm sound that will be welcome in a sort of too transparent and detailed system. Brendel/Philips II is a digital recording w/ better resolution and detail. Depending on your rig one will fit better than the other. But according to current hi-fi parameters, Brendel II is a better recording.
Artistically, Brendel II is very good indeed but his somewhat Appolonian approach may sound a bit mechanical for some, somewhat severe/formal, a tad distant from the romantic flows, or even, as someone put it earlier, "too calculated". Rest assured that Brendel/Philips I is a good cycle too and that his Diabelli's Variations from the late 80's is outstanding.
On the other hand, Arrau has a personal reading, perhaps too personal: to the point of talking about "The Arrau's Beethoven". He's more introspective w/o being too yielding and you can hear more with him due to his magical tempos.
Artistically, in short: if you want a more austere reading, formaly perfect and satisfying, Brendel will be the choice. But if wish to dive into some mouvements (appasionata & Hammerklavier & #31's adagios or #32's arietta.....) and feel the romantic storms, it's Arrau, no doubt.
Well, that's my view: hope it helps. Let us know if other pianists may be considered too. The scenario certainly would change.
Sat, Jan 26 2013, 12:33PM
#9
RE: Arrau or Brendel?
Some very good and helpful answers - but others will be welcome!
Sat, Jan 26 2013, 12:45PM
#10
RE: Arrau or Brendel?
Arrau is an excellent safe set. Brendel is an excellent safe set. Gilels is an excellent safe set. Kempff is an excellent safe set. There is something about pianists when they set out to record the complete set of Beethoven piano sonatas. Richter's individual discs are far from perfect, usually live recordings on sometimes dodgy pianos, but with his refusal to be a 'completist' and to play only those he thought he could say something about, I think you get nearer to the essence of Beethoven.
Sat, Jan 26 2013, 3:39PM
#11
RE: Arrau or Brendel?
It is my firm belief, after collecting and listening for more than three decades that, with such monumental and complex in terms of form and emotional weight works, the more recordings (even of individual sonatas) you have the more you get into the essence of them.
I have seen Brendel live, at the end of his career, playing some of Beethoven late Sonatas. He was impeccable and emotionally very communicative. However, I could not recognise much of these performances in his recordings, particularly the second cycle. So, relativity is the order of the day.
From the new recordings, among others, Roscoe is doing a very impressive series, while M. Kodama, on Pentatone SACD, has completed a very commanding reading of these works.
Parla
Sat, Jan 26 2013, 3:52PM
#12
RE: Arrau or Brendel?
Parla wrote
"I have seen Brendel live, at the end of his career, playing some of Beethoven late Sonatas. He was impeccable and emotionally very communicative. However, I could not recognise much of these performances in his recordings, particularly the second cycle. "
It's very odd that Parla, isn't it. I attended more than half of the cycle he gave in London at the time of his second Philips recordings, and can only agree with you. Not all the performances were brilliant, some seemed too didactic for me, but I'll never forget the recital with the last three sonatas. The CD was so disappointing afterwards.
You know, he recorded a complete cycle for the BBC after his Vox set but before his first Philips cycle. They should surely fish this out of their archive.
Chris
That's a tough one, a real top of the league clash, but why just limit it to these two. However I don't do complete sets, I'd pick and choose. A bit more expensive, but we should allow ourself these pleasures when it comes to Beethoven. Buy both and see which one you like the best and sell the other one on ebay, I'll give you £10 for the Arrau if it's still mint, final offer.