background noises on recordings
Wed, Dec 12 2012, 2:18PM
Yesterday I was listening to Janine Jansen's album Beau Soir. Great album of French chamber works by the likes of Debussy, Messiaen, Fauré and Ravel. However; the album is recorded in such a way that noises like fingers moving over the the strings and especially breathing can be very clearly heard. On several occaisons, before an intense part of the movement, you can hear a very distinct inhalation.
Roland Barthes for one loved hearing these kinds of physical, material and bodily aspects of making music; it's what he called the genosong: “the space where significations germinate ‘from within the language and in its very materiality’ [...] that apex (or that depth) of production where melody explores how the language works and identifies with that work”. This genosong somethimes shines through in the phenosong: “everything in the performance which is in the service of communication, representation, expression [...] everything which it is customary to talk about, which forms the tissues of cultural values”.
I for one don't mind hearing some traces of the act of making music through the music itself. I don't fully adhere to the modern taste for crystal clear recordings where every note has to be perfect and every bit of extraneous noise has to be banned out. However, on the Janine Jansen record, it is a bit too much I think. It's not enough to stop me from loving this otherwise beautiful album, but the album surely would have benefitted from some engineer-wizardry, to my tastes....
So, how do you feel about the presence of this kind of noises on recordings?
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 9:50AM
#2
RE: background noises on recordings
Glenn Gould was (in)famous for humming along to his own music making on recordings.It does not bother me at all, proves he is completely immersed in the music.
Can't believe this was true - On a radio programme about Gould. It was said, that during sessions the producer got so exasperated with Gould's failure to control his humming while recording,that he asked him to wear a motorcycle helmet,so as to stop the sounds reaching the microphone.The experiment ended in failure, as helmet kept bashing the top of the piano as Gould played!
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 10:59AM
#3
RE: background noises on recordings
Glenn Gould's humming was a strong deterrent in listening to his (or most of his) recordings. It was such a distraction from concentrating in the actual score, even if it can be viewed as a proof that he was "completely immersed in the music".
However, Keith Jarrett's "humming" in his solos or piano trio format recordings is easier for me to get used to. It's jazz, after all!
The "breathing" of the strings is O.K. with me as long as it is not that loud, let's say more than audible. As violinists/friends frequently tell me this is part of their technic and interpretation. Vegh was (in)famous for that and not only.
Parla
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 12:32PM
#4
RE: background noises on recordings
If I mistake not, Pablo Casals used to hum along the melodic lines too.
Breathing, turning of score pages, humming, groaning.....all are distracting but none surpasses the coughing in live recordings: the most annoying, by far.
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 2:11PM
#5
RE: background noises on recordings
But the sound of fingers rasping over guitar strings drives me nuts.
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 8:45PM
#6
RE: background noises on recordings
However, Keith Jarrett's "humming" in his solos or piano trio format recordings is easier for me to get used to. It's jazz, after all!
Yes and no. In no way do I find Jarrett's groans, exclamations and other additions distracting during his solo concerts. But there's one of his quartet records, I can't recall which, that's a disaster. He vocalizes along with his playing, not always in tune, as a kind of fifth band member.
All extraneous record noises become insignificant when my good lady wife starts up her accompaniment. She loves her music but in the 37 years I've known her, she's yet to hit a note even passingly similar to what's coming out of the speakers.
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 9:38PM
#7
RE: background noises on recordings
Brumas, it wouldn't surprise me if the Janine Jansen album was recorded so closely because the producers thought some people out there are more interested in her breathing than in her violin playing. Like there are tennis fans who only watch it for the moaning, not the actual tennis.
Jansen being one of those young classical idols, propelled to stardom by the Dutch music-Pravda who praise every single one of her recordings as the best thing since sliced bread made me shun her output completely, btw. But that's material for another discussion, I guess.
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 10:00PM
#8
RE: background noises on recordings
A really interesting question.
My response to this varies from piece to piece and performer to performer. I have never really minded Gould's noises; right from the beginning, I just accepted them as part of the package. For whatever reason, they don't interfere with the music at all for me.
On the other hand, I really do get annoyed by the noises Colin Davis makes, especially in the recent live LSO recordings - to such an extent that I just can't listen to them. I got Sibelius 5 out of the library a few weeks ago and couldn't get through it. Where Gould's "singing" never interferes with the music, Davis's humming does: it seems to blend with the orchestral sound and it catches me off guard every time I hear it.
Likewise, but to a much lesser extent, I find Pollini's constant sniffing a real irritant.
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 10:02PM
#9
RE: background noises on recordings
(bloody duplicated post I can't get rid of.........)
Thu, Dec 13 2012, 10:47PM
#10
RE: background noises on recordings
Sir John Barbirolli was known to make an occational bit of a moan on some of his records.He would deny it,much to the amusement of his wife Evelyn.I`ve got quite a few of his records and have noticed very few instances.I have older Colin Davis recordings where he is quiet.I avoid his recent cds,as I have heard legions of music listeners complain about his vocalizations.Toscanini can be heard singing on some of his opera recordings.The most "interesting" background noise is on a very famous pop record,none other than The Beatles`Hey Jude.Just short of 3 minutes into the song you can hear(at least with headphones)John shouts out "(There`s a)Wrong chord"! and Paul mutters "F......hell"!Obviously recorded when the instrumental tracking was being done.
Fri, Dec 14 2012, 12:54AM
#11
Reminds me of a funny
Reminds me of a funny anecdote by oboist Eugene Goossens (quoting from his book on the Oboe):
We were in the studio to record Schumann's Cello Concerto with Piatigorsky as soloist. Like all artists he was capable of having an off-day, and on this occasion he was dissatisfied with his performance of the cadenza. I felt sympathy for him. After several attempts he finally decided to break and try later. When we had assembled again the recording producer recommended we do a rehearse run before making the recording. The tension was high and Piatigorsky played brilliantly, throwing off the cadenza with superb artistry. I was so carried away that I could not restrain myself from shouting "Bravo" in a very loud voice. All was silent for a brief second. Then the producer came into the studio ashen-faced and full of despair. They had recorded it!
After the initial dismay had passed, Piatigorsky said: "I can't play it again." But he held a simple solution: "Simply put on the label 'CELLO - PIATIGORSKY, BRAVO! - GOOSSENS'."
It appears to be a recording from the 30's, with Barbirolli conducting, available on Naxos. Would be nice to listen too, and not only because of the "bravo"...
Fri, Dec 14 2012, 3:58AM
#12
RE: background noises on recordings
Over time, recorded noises off can become part of the score, like clicks and pops on old vinyl discs. We miss them when we hear a 'clean' performance.
On an old Turnabout vinyl of Richter playing Debussy's Preludes Book II, a live performance somewhere in France I believe, there are all kinds of unscored additions. The town clock, chiming as Richter starts into Brouillards and again in Les fees sont d'exquises danseuses, is atmospheric and welcome. I miss it when I hear other performances. Not so whatever happens over the last notes of Bruyeres - either a door slamming or the piano lid crashing down.
Coughs and cellphones are a different story. We all get colds, we all (nearly) own cell phones. Inability to control either is a form of self indulgence or lack of consideration for others that is just part of some peoples' make-up.
Fri, Dec 14 2012, 5:17PM
#13
RE: background noises on recordings
I would be more worried,system wise,if I couldn't hear extraneous noises on a recording. If London Underground trains can be heard rumbling away under the Kingsway Hall on recordings from that venue.....You are listening to an excellent Hi-Fi system.
Fri, Dec 14 2012, 10:17PM
#14
RE: background noises on recordings
Yes and No, History Man. Nowadays, the CD engineering can perform miracles. They can remove almost anything from the original mastertape, if it is "annoying", "extraneous", "irrelevant" and so on. The different versions of Solti's "Ring" is an excellent proof how each version sounds so different than the previous one.
Parla
Sat, Dec 15 2012, 9:44AM
#15
RE: background noises on recordings
"Baby out with bathwater" comes to mind.
Leave those precious mastertapes alone.Much rather hear some extraneous sounds then some "knob twiddler"(if you pardon the expression!) deciding what is fit for my ears.
Depends. For me, the background groans in the famous Du Pre/Barbirolli Elgar Cello Concerto are part of the piece, as is Svetlanov's whistling of the DSCH motif in the 3rd movement of the Shostakovich 10th. EMI's cleaned-up reissue of the Britten Les Illuminations with Heather Harper has lost the sparrows tweeting during the last movement, part of the charm of the piece. Many old recordings capture background traffic rumble and are no worse-off for it.
But the sound of fingers rasping over guitar strings drives me nuts.