bought on recommendation
Naupilus, it's the former. The musical romantic ideal, as it has been expressed, marveled, excelled or transcended by the very Romantic composers. The actual reference goes to the very few String Quintets composed by any composer of this period. The peaks are the String Quintet in G, op. 111 by Brahms and the String Quintets of Reger, though totally unknown and almost never performed or even recorded, mostly due to their length and complexity. There is another one by Rimsky-Korsakov and one by Borodin, not worthy of their composer's name. Some more by minor composers and Dvorak's of course (one with two violas and one with Double Bass, not that bright though).
JHK, my reference to the "early response" is not a term or notion, established by authors, or critics, etc. It is the product of the research of our people, who study and perform these works and notice the subtle similarities and nuances that connect Mozart with the future composers. In the String Quintets, this is most striking than any other work of this genius. However, a certain form of reference could be traced in the francophone books of Mark Vignol: Haydn et Mozart (Edition Fayard, 2001) and in Emile Vuillermoz: Histoire de la musique (Ed. Fayard, 1973).
Parla
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... my reference to the "early response" is not a term or notion, established by authors, or critics, etc. It is the product of the research of our people, who study and perform these works and notice the subtle similarities and nuances that connect Mozart with the future composers.
Thank you for elaborating in that way, Parla.
JKH
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Here's a recommendation: A Naxos CD of the music of Irgens-Jensen played by the Bournemouth SO under Bjarte Engeset. The outright winner is the Passacaglia of 1928.
Do not hesitate. Am I ever wrong about these things?
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Some recent quite good recordings for interested collectors:
In the Classic field: SCHUBERT: String Quintet, D.956 with Tokyo String Quartet and D. Watkin (second cello), in brilliant SACD sound, on Harmonia Mundi USA. A new benchmark recording, superb in the detail, in refinement and in profound musicianship.
In the late Romantic French music: ROPARTZ: Symphony no.3 on Timpani. Great recording of a new revelation with low key orchestra and conductor, on a very substantive label defending properly French music.
In the 20th century music: WEINBERG: Requiem with Fedoseyev on Neos. Something choral from a composer mostly known and famous for his chamber and orchestral works.
In the other end of the spectrum, namely early music: ISAAC: Musique profane et Motets with Capilla Flamenca on the very reliable label of Ricercar. Revelatory performances of quite interesting music of this early period. Eventually, some profane music.
Parla
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Vic, from the notorious thread on "God in Classical Music", I remember you were interested in any composer who might have attempted to write a work on "The Paradise Lost" of Milton.
I found two composers who have dealt with the subject, but, since I don't have the relevant CDs I cannot for sure tell whether their "Paradise Lost" are based actually on Milton's poem.
The first comes from the conductor-composer Igor Markevitch. It bears the French title "Le paradis perdu" and it's a rather large scale oratorio for soprano, mezzo, tenor, mixed chorus and orchestra. You can find it on Naxos 8.572152. It's a reissue from the sister label Marko Polo.
The other is a forthcoming double CD from the quite neglected but very interesting French composer Theodore Dubois. It's also called Le Paradis Perdu and it will appear soon on the French label Aparte (it's distributed in UK, but with some delay). It's a larger Oratorio covering two CDs. When it is available in UK, I'll let you know, because, if you expect to be informed by the magazines, you will...miss it, most probably (their reviews do not exceed the 100-150, while per month the new releases from all the available labels could reach the 300-400 or even more (sometimes).
Parla
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Vic, from the notorious thread on "God in Classical Music", I remember you were interested in any composer who might have attempted to write a work on "The Paradise Lost" of Milton.
...
... while per month the new releases from all the available labels could reach the 300-400 or even more (sometimes).
Parla
Thank you parla, that is very thoughtful of you. However, I only mentioned Milton in relation to metaphor in religious experience if memory serves, and wouldn't want to pursue it into music, particularly - intriguing though your recommendations sound.
It's a pity you remember the thread as notorious. I thought it a most lively and enlightening debate. We could do with more like it, perhaps.
I have long admired your comprehensive knowledge of available music and its various interpretations but however do you keep on top of 300 - 400 new releases a month? I could hardly read that number of reviews let alone hear enough of them to make informed judgments! Your investment of time and your dedication is most impressive. Our exchanges, as in the one you mention above, might, at times been a little tetchy, but I for one am most grateful for your willingness to share the fruits of your research.
Vic.
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Being on a mission in difficult places makes life of tracing internet access an ordeal, but I managed to locate one.
So, Vic, if my memory serves as well, I recall, when you use Milton's poem as a metaphor, you question whether it has been used in music, somehow. I mentioned then a work of the Portuguese composer Freitas Branko, with a title that I always thought have to do with "Paradise lost". However, I was wrong.
However, now, probably I'm right. I think the work of Dubois should be a discovery. Markevitch's one is characterised by the people of Naxos as "granitic", whatever they wish to say.
I'm very glad that you are one of the few who recognise my genuine love, passion and dedication to Classical Music. Despite, by choice, I never became a Classical musician, I decided to serve this art in any possible way, even by becoming an unofficial producer of small-scale concerts. So, it's not surprising I can cope with 300-400 new releases every month. I don't mean I listen to them, but I make sure I can be aware of their existence (in detail). Then, I decide what to buy, to find access, more information, etc. The magazines are only a small contribution to that end. Most of the work is done with personal effort and with the precious help from my most valuable friends/musicians/professional people of this business.
As for the "notorious" thread, as a believer, I enjoy always the subject but, due to the inevitable confrontation with the non-believers, I think the thread led astray and became, at times, sour. However, now, recalling it from a distance in time, I tend to believe our exchanges brought us closer than apart. And that's too important to me. It reveals to me that we have common starting points but different terminals. So, one day, we may comprehend better each other, even if we never meet and know the real self of us.
Best wishes,
Parla
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As for the "notorious" thread, as a believer, I enjoy always the subject but, due to the inevitable confrontation with the non-believers, I think the thread led astray and became, at times, sour. However, now, recalling it from a distance in time, I tend to believe our exchanges brought us closer than apart. And that's too important to me. It reveals to me that we have common starting points but different terminals. So, one day, we may comprehend better each other, even if we never meet and know the real self of us.
Best wishes,
Parla
As I seem to log on to this forum these days and find little (and sometimes nothing) but Parla as a subject of debate, or spammers, I thought it timely to take a step back and reflect.
At the time I was somewhat touched to read the above, especially in the light of how bitter our exchanges had become. I don't disagree with almost all of the criticism leveled at Parla here. I think he brings it on himself with his manner of expressing opinions as well as the seeming illogicality (to me) of his position in relation to the subjectivity/objectivity issue and the way he promotes it.
It has become obvious to me that Parla is incapable of taking on board these valid criticisms, let alone changing his emphasis or style to accommodate them. If that is a given (and I only suggest it might be) there seems little point in pursing it as an aim and letting it dominate this forum with obvious negative results.
On a much more positive note, here are my latest purchases bought on recommendation - and I can hardly praise them enough! Not being a "collector" in the sense of those discussing their dilemma in another thread, I only buy with the intention of listening often to my choices. In the couple of weeks I have owned the following, they have had plenty of airing to my great delight. I recommend them heartily.
Vivaldi: Sacred works for soprano, Channel Classics.
Handel: Eight Keyboard Suites, Lisa Smirnova on ECM,
Mozart: String Quartets, K157 etc Jerusalem Quartet on Harmonai Mundi,
Philippe Rogier: Six Masses, latest from Philip Cave on Linn,
Haydn: Creation, John Nelson on Soli Deo Gloria dvd (pity it's not Blu-ray).
Can I tentatively suggest to Parla that it would be a helpful step forward to contribute to the latter half of this post only, if he wishes to do so?
Vic.
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I will tentatively follow your suggestion, Vic. However, allow me to have my reservations on your analysis on the "upper" part of your post. However, let's leave the controversy behind.
-The Vivaldi SACD on Channel is a marvellous newcomer, in a wonderful recording at the very high standards of this Dutch label.
-The Haendel on ECM is quite good and impressive, but not my usual...cup of tea.
-The Jerusalem Quartet is a great, consistent and brilliant String Quartet. So, whatever you have with them is at a safe level of a secure performance. I have seen them live in the Shostakovich cycle (in Berlin). They were stunning, immaculate and with deep understanding of the works.
-Rogier is a discovery, a delight and another glorious SACD recording of Linn.
I don't have time for DVDs. So, I leave the "Creation" to somebody else to comment upon.
Few more suggestions of mine:
Early music: Le Jeune : Dix Psaumes de David on Ramee
Late Romantic: Faure: Piano Quartet no.1/La Bonne Chanson on ZIg Zag.
Discovery composer: Felicien David: Trio/Quatuor and other Chamber Music works on Laborie.
20th century: R. Strauss: Piano Quartet/Cello Sonata, etc. with members of the glorious Prazak Quartet, on Praga.
Late Romantic: Lekeu: The complete works for String Quartet on Timpani.
Baroque: Vivaldi: Vespro a San Marco (a revelation), on Ambronay.
Opera: Piotr Beczala: Slavic Opera Arias (another discovery in the field of melomanes), on Orfeo.
Classic: Beethoven: Septett, op. 20/Sextett op.71 in a stunning new recording (SACD) with the quite impressive and immaculate Sharoun Ensemble Berlin, on Tudor.
Unknown territory (early Classic): Aumann: Requiem/Te Deum on Pan Classics.
Enough, perhaps...for the moment.
My respects,
Vic.
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I appreciate your suppleness in your confusion, Frank. Keep on with internet and facebook. However, when you have a bit of spare time, try some Haydn. It wouldn't hurt.
Parla
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Frank - try Bruckner's 4th symphony!
P
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By the way, I bought the latest volume of the Brautigam series of the Complete Solo Piano Works by Beethoven, on Fortepiano (on Bis, as ever).
It contain some very rare and early Variations, albeit so brilliantly performed and recorded (SACD), that the works sound so fresh and significant. Virtuosity is the order of the day.
Parla
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Pity about the fortepiano; I listened to Brautigam give a splendid performance of the Eroica Variations on Radio 3's lunchtime concert on a proper piano yesterday. Rather coincidentally it was in this work I first came across Brautigam, also in a Radio 3 lunchtime concert, 15 or so years ago and thought this guy's good. Shorly after I got a disc of him playing Schumann.
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It's not pity at all, 33lp. I (and not only) found Fortepiano a brilliant alternative on how these works may sound. Initially, I thought it was something too strange as a sound, but, gradually I got there.
Nowadays, I found the works of this period sound more convincing (not necessarily more beautiful or more refined) on Fortepiano. BIS and Brautigam have done an excellent work on the works of Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven, so far.
Parla
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In my introductory remarks on the respective thread, I mentioned also that these Quintets draw the outline of the romantic ideal that later was transcended by Brahms and Reger. So, while there is no "romantic ideal" in Mozart's time, he draws the lines of something to follow. This, among certain professionals, is called the "early response" to the whole phenomenon of the romantic ideal, which means that, when we deal with that, we don't consider only the works of Brahms, Reger and his contemporaries but also those of composers who provided an "early response" (the early or first voice in the Antiphon).
Parla
Parla - while I understand in general your description of the 'early response' I am struggling with the term "Romantic Ideal". Is this a reference to the romantic movemnet in classical music, as it is usually labelled, or something more closely linked to the literary (and historical) concept of Romanticism?
Naupilus