Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
Fri, Apr 12 2013, 4:29PM
#2
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
Sorry for this slip, 33lp. Your comment must have passed me by. Anyway, it's good to know that, like Parla and myself, you treasure the art of Gina Bachauer.
Fri, Apr 12 2013, 5:02PM
#3
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
Obviously this is not a gender related matter.However I don't think that Grimaud & Sanderling's recording on Erato should be ranked among the best (very well recorded though). This a rather heavy work, full of uncertainties, desolation, questions (adagio!).....and somehow Grimaud lacks imo the necessary weight and introspection. Some say that Brahms' first pc cries as the second smiles and I think that this is true to a good extent.Probably her being so young at that time may have something to do with it.
I don't know her later recordings of the work, but, knowing her predilection for Brahms' piano music, I can only predict wonderful things as she progresses.
For the time being I'll leave the pc#1 w/ Curzon, Serkin, Solomon......
PS1: interesting comments on Bachauer's reading;
PS2: another recording unknown to me and that may be of some interest: Kurt Sanderling recorded this work earlier w/ Richter-Haaser.
Fri, Apr 12 2013, 5:17PM
#4
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
yes, and also Karin Lechner with Eduardo Marturet (actual conductor of the Miamis Symphony Orchestra in USA), blablabla, but ¿where is the constellation of Brahms female pianists about what Parla speaks, because I count only five or six??. oscar.olavarria
Fri, Apr 12 2013, 6:28PM
#5
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
78 RPM, I don't know Richter-Haaser's recording of No 2 with Sanderling but I do like his recording with Karajan/BPO (EMI). I also rate what I've heard of his Beethoven highly too - concertos 4 & 5 & several sonatas.
Incidentally Brahms 2 saw off R-H who collapsed whilst rehearsing it & died shortly afterwards. Bachauer had a fatal heart attack shortly before she was due to play it. Pianists take care.....
PS I seem to recall reading somewhere another female, Elly Ney ("the Fuhrer's pianist") played it & recorded it.
Fri, Apr 12 2013, 7:33PM
#6
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
Andsenes, Rattle in the first anyone ... no!
Fri, Apr 12 2013, 8:52PM
#7
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
"PS I seem to recall reading somewhere another female, Elly Ney ("the Fuhrer's pianist") played it & recorded it" (33lp)
it would be seven, then, but ¿where are the others??oscar.olavarria
Fri, Apr 12 2013, 11:33PM
#8
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
PC#1 I was referring to, 33lp.R-H's #2, I only know that version w/Karajan on EMI. It seems an interesting double cd, coupled w/ LvB's Emperor Concerto (http://amzn.to/1163jpm)
Sat, Apr 13 2013, 6:29PM
#9
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
Oscar, six, seven or even more female pianists performing great Brahms is not a negligible number. In any case, this is the number or recordings the few members of this forum mentioned. There are quite a few recordings from labels from various parts of the world that may never see the world market (Asian labels are too expensive).
Finally, there is a great number of female pianists, who perform Brahms (and not only) out there and they never record (for various reasons). So, enjoy what you love most and stop there.
Parla
Sun, Apr 14 2013, 9:18PM
#10
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
well, is the definitive, then, that there are only a limited number of female pianists who have played or recorded Brahms' piano concertos. In all case, I give to you -specially Parla- the link of the Brahms Nº 1 piano concerto with Helene Grimaud-Michael Gielen and the Baden Baden Symphony Orchestra:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xd3f2OHYbo
Best regards. oscar.olavarria
Mon, Apr 15 2013, 3:51AM
#11
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
I don't think, Oscar, you wish to get it. There is nothing "definitive" in the world of performances as long as one cannot have a full picture of what is going on in all parts of the world both as for the recordings and much more for the live performances.
So, stick to what works for you and do not draw conclusions about what happens to the rest of the world.
Parla
Mon, Apr 15 2013, 8:42PM
#12
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
Thoroughly enjoying this. Parla taking on somebody for making an utterly preposterous statement and defending it through thick and thin. Never thought I'd see the day.
Tue, Apr 16 2013, 1:11AM
#13
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
I cannot agree with you Dear Parla, because for me and much others exists certain versions what critics and public in general considers "unsurpassables", for example: Beethovens 9th symphony with Philharmonia Orchestra (Lucerne Festival, 1954), conducted by Wilhelm Furtwangler (TAHRA); Beethovens 5 and 7 symphonies with Carlos Kleiber-Vienna (DG); Mahlers 5th symphonie with Rudolf Barshai-Deustche Junger Orchester (Laurel/Brilliant); Ravels piano concert in G with Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli-Ettore Gracis; Mozarts Nº 23 piano concert with Ivan Moravec-Czech Chamber Orchestra (Supraphon), and much others. What do you think about this? are effectively "definitive" versions or not? can you mention other versions that could be considered "definitive" versions? Best regards. oscar.olavarria
Tue, Apr 16 2013, 7:59AM
#14
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
No, Oscar, there are no "definitive" performances per se. Certain establishments. institutions, magazines, individual critics may call their preferences as "definitive", "benchmark", "reference" etc., but there is no "definitive" recording, for universal use. (I follow at least four magazines, all these years, and they offer, quite often, different "definitive" recordings even within the same magazine, at different times and from different reviewers!).
For the works of a particular composer, on the contrary, it can be a kind of artistically/technically reference, based only on the musical/technical features of the work in question (So, we have established masterpieces of great composers, but, still, we don't have "definitive" works in terms of which comes first, second and so on.
However, the performance is a matter of perception of the conductor, the various limitations of the players, venue, audiences etc., so that one may speak only of performances that serve specific aspects of the work and suit specific audiences, sound well in the concrete venues. As for the recordings, producers and engineers can perform miracles with simply decent artists and can degrade (sometimes considerably) great performances in the studio.
So, leave aside the "definitive" statement about the female players in performing or recording Brahms.
Parla
P.S.: Mista, where did you find I defend the venues of a performance and which are the "facts" and the "absolute (!) truth" of it?
Fri, Apr 19 2013, 3:44PM
#15
RE: Brahms' piano concertos, which are the best??
Dear Parla,
we are not being sinceres, because...do you believe really that ever could be a better Elgars cello concerto version than Dupré-Barbirolli? or a better version than Benedetti Michelangeli-Ettore Gracis for Ravels piano concerto in G? I find that almost impossible, dear friend!! oscar.olavarria
Well, I did mention Bachauer's recording earlier on Page 2....