Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
Sun, Apr 29 2012, 10:27PM
#2
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
[/quote]
Try Herreweghe on DHM. You can say what you like about period instuments in Beethoven but you can't beat period voices.......![/quote]
Thanks, I'll check it out.
Sun, Apr 29 2012, 10:56PM
#3
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
I have the Immersel set of Mozart's Piano Concertos. It's good indeed, but the few Badura-Skoda has done for Arcana are better. Brautigam started with two Volumes already: He undertook the Nos. 9, 12, 24 &25. I got them, since I'm a huge fan of Brautigam. He is not that better than Immersel and, definitely, he doesn't have the poetry and maturity of Badura-Skoda, but his recordings, in SACD sound from BIS, do full justice to these Concertos.
Parla
Mon, Apr 30 2012, 11:52AM
#4
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
Had not heard of Badura-Skoda. I'll check him out. Brautigam is a recent find for me, and I'm quite impressed with his work in the Beethoven sonatas.
Mon, Apr 30 2012, 2:06PM
#5
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
Brautigam has done an excellent Mozart series of the Piano Sonatas and Variations and a brilliant one on the Haydn Keyboard works. All of them on BIS, of course, in stunning recordings.
Parla
Tue, May 1 2012, 11:57AM
#6
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
While we're on the subject of HIP recordings, does anyone have thoughts about Bruggen's Chopin piano concertos and/or Haselbock's ongoing cycle of Liszt recordings?
Tue, May 1 2012, 12:37PM
#7
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
The former is a bizarre, odd, but always interesting view of these otherwise very romantic works of Piano literature. The latter is a more interesting, rather passionate, quite well recorded (at least to my hi-end equipment and in my listening room) readings from an underdog conductor. I have Vol. 2 & 3. They are worthwhile.
Parla
Tue, May 1 2012, 1:52PM
#8
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
I have the Gardiner set and Bruggens 7 & 8. Today I have compared the first movement of no 7. Bruggen vs Gardiner, Harnoncourt, Karajan (BPO 1936) and Carlos Kleiber. I rate Bruggen as the best and Kleiber as a close second. Both manage to get the music alive all the way. They are much better in the slow parts than the others. I think Bruggen is second to none when music is slowing down and he really knows how to get the woodwinds and brass right. The music is floating more organic under his baton. Bruggen is maybe one of the most underrated conductors of today. If you like Bruggens way of making music you can't get wrong with any of his recordings.
By the way, when it comes to Gardiner and symphonies he is at his best with The Symphonie Fantastique. His Fantastique is really fantastic.
Tue, May 1 2012, 7:31PM
#9
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
By the way, when it comes to Gardiner and symphonies he is at his best with The Symphonie Fantastique. His Fantastique is really fantastic.
Absolutely. I came across it by accident (picked it up at the library) and was blown away. It knocks every other version I've heard, including Beecham, backwards.
Tue, May 1 2012, 10:05PM
#10
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
I have the Gardiner set and Bruggens 7 & 8. Today I have compared the first movement of no 7. Bruggen vs Gardiner, Harnoncourt, Karajan (BPO 1936) and Carlos Kleiber. I rate Bruggen as the best and Kleiber as a close second. Both manage to get the music alive all the way. They are much better in the slow parts than the others. I think Bruggen is second to none when music is slowing down and he really knows how to get the woodwinds and brass right. The music is floating more organic under his baton. Bruggen is maybe one of the most underrated conductors of today. If you like Bruggens way of making music you can't get wrong with any of his recordings.
Ah, that did it! I just ordered the damned Bruggen set. Thanks for making those comparisons, and for reminding me to consult my own tastes -- I've long adored Bruggen's Haydn and Mendelssohn recordings (including the Beethovenian Scottish Symphony).
Tue, May 1 2012, 10:12PM
#11
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
The former is a bizarre, odd, but always interesting view of these otherwise very romantic works of Piano literature. The latter is a more interesting, rather passionate, quite well recorded (at least to my hi-end equipment and in my listening room) readings from an underdog conductor. I have Vol. 2 & 3. They are worthwhile.
Parla
Thanks -- that rather confirms my suspicions. I have a good modern-instrument version of the Chopin concertos (Argerich/Dutoit), and also the period set from Ax/Mackerras (I think it's Mackerras; I don't feel like going downstairs to check). For Concerto no. 1, I much prefer the modern version, but Ax and whoever it is do a lovely job on no. 2. I'm hoping the Haselbock Liszt will eventually be repackaged in a skinny box I can squeeze onto my bulging shelves.
Tue, May 1 2012, 11:17PM
#12
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
By the way, when it comes to Gardiner and symphonies he is at his best with The Symphonie Fantastique. His Fantastique is really fantastic.
Absolutely. I came across it by accident (picked it up at the library) and was blown away. It knocks every other version I've heard, including Beecham, backwards.
Oh dear, I have problems with the acoustic of, I think, the wooden hall and aren't those bells added on at the end authentic as they may or may not be.
I prefer Norrington but there are so many fine, enjoyable Fantastiques out there.
I was going to buy the Ticciati last month but forgot to include it in my order (along with other things).
Is Martinon's still available with Lelio because if it is I thoroughly recommend it?
Beecham in mono, never issued on CD, as far as I know, despite the lack of a first movement repeat.
Tue, May 1 2012, 11:22PM
#13
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
Norrington all the way. He brings out the humour in the score.
Wed, May 2 2012, 2:09AM
#14
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
Oh dear, I have problems with the acoustic of, I think, the wooden hall and aren't those bells added on at the end authentic as they may or may not be.
Beecham in mono, never issued on CD, as far as I know, despite the lack of a first movement repeat.
Just goes to show. The Gardiner is demo standard on my gear.
The Beecham mono, don't talk to me about it. Back in the 60s I was in a record shop in Liverpool where they had racks of deleted unused mono pressings going for a song. There was the Beecham Fantastique alongside the Klemperer version so I trotted down to the library to check out old Gramophones for reviews. Klemperer got pretty high ratings but they only had a review of the stereo Beecham and noted the mono was a different recording. I played safe and bought the Klemperer. Which was woeful. Of course, I know now the Beecham mono is a fabled recording, far superior to the stereo according to the big boys.
One of my all-time record-buying 'misses'.
Wed, May 2 2012, 3:06AM
#15
RE: Bruggen or Gardiner for Beethoven Symphonies?
Which Beecham's Fantastique are you talking about? I got the 1957/58 mono recording w/ Orquestre National de l'ORTF (together w/ Overtures recorded on 40's -RPO & 30's-PO) on a EMI/CD (Beecham Edition) and it seems that it is available now in another EMI series.
This is a great recording and one of my favourites Fantastique together w/ Davis (the one w/ RCO-Philips) and, of course, Charles Munch:you may choose the version: all are great: I got a slight preference for the one from the early 60's (RCA).
Mussessein, I don't believe that is a plausible argument that Brautigam recorded Beethoven's Concertos because "got frustrated with the limitations of the fortepiano after recording the Sonatas". If you're not aware, he keeps recording the Piano works of Beethoven and he started the cycle of Mozart's Piano Concertos.
I hope you may find a cycle of the Symphonies (with period instruments) that can fit in your perception. I haven't...yet.
Parla
Parla -- Slight misunderstanding. I wasn't saying that Brautigam's frustration was the reason he decided to record the concertos, but it was the reason he chose a modern instrument for the concerto project. What I've read is that he doesn't think the period instruments have the proper resonance for Beethoven's concerto writing.
I didn't know Brautigan was working on Mozart's piano concertos; have any of them been released yet? Do you know Immerseel's set -- it's a big favorite of mine.
Thanks again for your comments. I'm starting to lean toward Bruggen's Beethoven set, as soon as I can scrape some cash together!