Eduard Tubin
Sun, Nov 6 2011, 11:01PM
I've been listening to Tubin's symphonies lately (Neeme Jarvi on Bis mostly) and love the soundscape of strings and wonderful punchy brass sections.
How does he compare with other Scandinavian (I know he's Estonian but spent time in Sweden) composers such as Holmboe and Nielsen, etc? I'd love to hear your thoughts and introductions to new and established composers.
I've yet to plough my way through his quite extensive chamber works.
Mon, Nov 7 2011, 12:31AM
#2
RE: Eduard Tubin
If you can't get to sleep try counting sheep first, then try a nice warm milky drink, then get the nearest dictionary and start reading it, then try counting the hairs on your arm. However if all this fails just put a Holmboe CD on. You'll be off in no time at all. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Mon, Nov 7 2011, 1:34AM
#3
RE: Eduard Tubin
Those Tubin CDs have been around for some time and, of course, Jarvi is Estonian.
Sadly, I took a dip with symphonies 3 and 8 and they possess the characteristics of so many twentieth century symphonies: a lack of originality demonstrated by the banality of the ideas and a complete lack of memorability. I do not envy you ploughing through his chamber works. Hope you have a strong plough and a powerful tractor!
I may be completely wrong and will put the disc on the turntable one day and be bowled over. I have had this disc for seven years.
As for Holmboe he was working in the shadow of Nielsen and there he will remain as he is nowhere near being as great as the older man.
I rank Nielsen as one of the greatest and , therefore, one of the greatest symphonists of the twentieth century. Stunning, startling works.
Atterberg is more involving than these two duffers but very conservative.
If you want a symphony cycle of merit rather than something Scandanavian and that , at times, has a bitterness that is uncomfortable try Malcolm Arnold, two complete cycles, one on Naxos and the other on Decca, if you do not know them already.
Puts the likes of Tubin and Holmboe in the shade.
Mon, Nov 7 2011, 2:15AM
#4
RE: Eduard Tubin
I totally disagree with the other posters here. Holmboe's orchestral music rocks. He produced a cycle that is one of the cornerstones of 20th Century symphonic music. Symphonies 1-4 are kind of gear-up works, but with 5 he really gets going and there's hardly any let-up right through to #13. If I had to choose the highlights it would be 5-8 and 11,12,13. The Symphonia In Memoriam is really part of the cycle, clocking in at #9. I don't get as much out of his chamber music and the concerti are lightweight. Go back through this forum and you'll find plenty on Holmboe.
Tubin's pleasant enough and has his moments but he won't change your life.
On a chronological run through all my symphony recordings, just finished and it took about two years, one of the very few letdowns was Nielsen. Sad, I used to be crazy about him, especially symphonies 4 and 5 but he just doesn't do it for me any more. Live, I've never heard a good performance of either 4 or 5. All that intended key tension and anarchy generated by side drum or extra timpani sounded either gratuitously odd or limp in the concert hall. Maybe it's those starchy classical musicians. Put Elvin Jones at the back and tell him his job is to stop the orchestra, and they'd never make it through to the second movement, guaranteed.
Mon, Nov 7 2011, 12:53PM
#5
RE: Eduard Tubin
I totally disagree with the other posters here. Holmboe's orchestral music rocks. He produced a cycle that is one of the cornerstones of 20th Century symphonic music. Symphonies 1-4 are kind of gear-up works, but with 5 he really gets going and there's hardly any let-up right through to #13. If I had to choose the highlights it would be 5-8 and 11,12,13. The Symphonia In Memoriam is really part of the cycle, clocking in at #9. I don't get as much out of his chamber music and the concerti are lightweight. Go back through this forum and you'll find plenty on Holmboe.
Tubin's pleasant enough and has his moments but he won't change your life.
On a chronological run through all my symphony recordings, just finished and it took about two years, one of the very few letdowns was Nielsen. Sad, I used to be crazy about him, especially symphonies 4 and 5 but he just doesn't do it for me any more. Live, I've never heard a good performance of either 4 or 5. All that intended key tension and anarchy generated by side drum or extra timpani sounded either gratuitously odd or limp in the concert hall. Maybe it's those starchy classical musicians. Put Elvin Jones at the back and tell him his job is to stop the orchestra, and they'd never make it through to the second movement, guaranteed.
Have you heard any of the live recordings from the Danes, Tuxen et al?
...and the other four symphonies?
Mon, Nov 7 2011, 9:24PM
#6
RE: Eduard Tubin
Have you heard any of the live recordings from the Danes, Tuxen et al?
...and the other four symphonies?
I've got most of what he wrote, some of it umpteen times going back to Jensen, all the symphonies several times on both vinyl and cd, the opera Maskarade, concerti, quartets, organ music, tone poems and incidental music. I spent a lot of time exploring his music with Simpson's book at hand. Learnt to appreciate him he never lit the fire in me. Perhaps similar to you with Mozart.
I suppose for all of us there comes a time when you have to admit you just can't connect with a certain composer.
Mon, Nov 7 2011, 9:31PM
#7
RE: Eduard Tubin
The Gramophone server's driving me nuts this morning. Either posting twice or not at all. Mods need to take a hammer to it.
Wed, Nov 9 2011, 9:44PM
#8
RE: Eduard Tubin
Thanks for your replies - I'm a big fan, still, of Nielsen and I do play the Arnold symphonies although not frequently enough so thanks for the reminder.
Tagalie, Holmboe is newish to me. I have sym. 8 Aarhus Symphony but can't say I've really paid it enough attention, so something else to probe. What do you think of his chamber works?
No Dr.B. if ever I have trouble falling asleep I'll read your (too) many posts - that should do the trick.
Wed, Nov 9 2011, 11:41PM
#9
RE: Eduard Tubin
I have sym. 8 Aarhus Symphony but can't say I've really paid it enough attention, so something else to probe. What do you think of his chamber works?
Aarhus Symphony 8 is as good a performance of this work as you're likely to hear. If you can't get anything out of it he's just not your cup of tea.
The chamber works don't do it for me to anything like the extent of his orchestral pieces. But don't let that stop you from investigating. Most Holmboe-ites think his quartets are the cat's miaow. All 20 are available on Dacapo in 7 volumes. Try dipping-in somewhere in the middle.
Thu, Nov 10 2011, 12:32AM
#10
RE: Eduard Tubin
As an avid collector, I happened to have most of the "essential" works of Holmboe. The Symphonies look uneven and indifferent as for their scope, the String Quartets are more taut, but, after some listening, they look an exhaustive experience, his String Orchestra works sound a little bit better and balanced. In all, a minor figure for the Classical configuration, but, if you feel you have to deeply indulge in anything Nordic, then give a try. Who knows, you may appreciate his Art more.
In the "fun" section of the Nordic composers, I found Ole Bull very interesting, entertaining and a "true pleasurable means to a measurable end". Simax has some very nice recordings of his works. Give a shot. At least, you may enjoy the listening experience. In a similar but not the same vein, Gade is a very charismatic and almost brilliant Nordic composer I never feel tired to listen to his varied works.
Parla
Thu, Nov 10 2011, 2:03AM
#11
RE: Eduard Tubin
In the "fun" section of the Nordic composers, I found Ole Bull very interesting, entertaining and a "true pleasurable means to a measurable end". Simax has some very nice recordings of his works. Give a shot. At least, you may enjoy the listening experience. In a similar but not the same vein, Gade is a very charismatic and almost brilliant Nordic composer I never feel tired to listen to his varied works.
Parla
Gade is nothing of the kind. A Mendelssohnian lightweight with a few fine works including the First symphony.
He charimised himself into near oblivion.
Amazingly, his name decorates the Concertgebouw!
Thu, Nov 10 2011, 2:06AM
#12
RE: Eduard Tubin
Have you heard any of the live recordings from the Danes, Tuxen et al?
...and the other four symphonies?
I've got most of what he wrote, some of it umpteen times going back to Jensen, all the symphonies several times on both vinyl and cd, the opera Maskarade, concerti, quartets, organ music, tone poems and incidental music. I spent a lot of time exploring his music with Simpson's book at hand. Learnt to appreciate him he never lit the fire in me. Perhaps similar to you with Mozart.
I suppose for all of us there comes a time when you have to admit you just can't connect with a certain composer.
Fairy 'nuff guvnor. You've tried and I admire that because that is what I do.
Not so much Mozart, easy-peasy, but Rachmaninov. I think I have bought and sold more discs of this composer than any other.
Thu, Nov 10 2011, 4:21PM
#13
RE: Eduard Tubin
According to the Danes (and not only), Gade was their greatest composer of 19th century. He was respected by his fellow composers in and out of the country (Mendelssohn, Schumann, to mention at least two) and he was the teacher and mentor of Grieg and Nielsen.
He was an extremely prolific composer with consistent and very straightforward kind of works. His chamber music was very interesting and still fascinates the players and can please the audience, whenever performed. The piano music and songs too. The Symphonies may lack a sort of originality, but they are fun, anyway.
For the record, only (and possibly for those who wish to give a shot).
Parla
Thu, Nov 10 2011, 4:51PM
#14
RE: Eduard Tubin
Simpson - There is another so called composer who is really just an accademic and spent a lot of time hiding at the BBC. 'Imagination is more important than intelligence' said Einstien. Something a lot of 20th century composers didn't seem to want to believe. The BBC provided a nice little resting place for these experimental liberal intellectuals to crawl up their own and each others backsides.
Thu, Nov 10 2011, 8:32PM
#15
RE: Eduard Tubin
Not so much Mozart, easy-peasy, but Rachmaninov. I think I have bought and sold more discs of this composer than any other.
Did you ever try the old Svetlanov or Kondrashin recordings? Rach has to be played all out, heart on the sleeve, brass going nuts. At the same time it's easy to lose the shape of the music as Previn did in his series (and with just about every other composer). Outside of the Russians, the only conductor I consistently like in Rachmaninov is Litton.
Very briefly, for the moment: As a new listening experience, it's a discovery; as for the substance, it's a little more than a footnote in the History of Classical Music.
The same may apply to all these mostly obscure figures from Nordic or Baltic for this matter countries. When you have Sibelius, Nielsen and Grieg, some composers like Stenhamar, Holmboe, Larsson, Rautavaara, etc. might be interesting for expanding our musical knowledge and give us an edge to comprehend the music of the region, but that's all. (The same applies, grosso modo, with the great classics, romantics, etc.).
Parla